Laughing out loud! Sure, have a ball. You go right ahead and protest your little hearts out against those evil, capitalist banks. Heck, go protest every "big" that you don't like. "Big" oil, "Big" Pharmaceuticals. Big this, Big that. Meanwhile, government beauracracy, waste and corruption make the worst or the worst in the corporate world look like a Rotary club meeting, and you nitwits couldn't care less. Selective outrage directed at what you already are ideologically opposed to doesn't just smack of naivety and hypocrisy, it reeks. We have over 9% unemplyment. If it was up to this crowd, it would be 50%. And ironically, they'd blame that on "Wall Street" too.

The NYC attempt to rally against Wall Street is nothing but a bunch of young unemployed children who have not one bit of financial sense in their young minds. I originally thought the idea of having a rally in the Lehigh Valley might big good for business at the restaurants but truthfullly mommy will probably brown bad lunch for the kiddies. ! Have fun kids..... don't forget....mommy wants the car home before 8 !

Capitalism demands the best of every man, his rationality, and rewards him accordingly. It leaves every man free to choose the work he likes, to specialize in it, to trade his product for the products of others, and to go as far on the road of achievement as his ability and ambition will carry him.

The moral justification of capitalism does not lie in the altruist claim that it represents the best way to achieve 'the common good.' It is true that capitalism does (if that catch-phrase has any meaning) but this is merely a secondary consequence. The moral justification for capitalism lies in the fact that it is the only system consonant with man's rational nature, that it protects man's survival qua man, and that its ruling principle is: justice. Capitalism is the only system that can make freedom, individuality, and the pursuit of values possible in practice.

So you think that money is the root of all evil. Have you ever asked what is the root of all money?

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=154002468027723

There is plenty of greed and corruption to go around but these groups have no meaningful focus and are anti-productive. In fact, it is the lack of capitalism (monopolies and entities in cahoots with the legislators) rather than capitalism itself that causes corruption. Take for example subsidized green energy and monopolistic utilities. Government control, needed to prevent or control monopolies, morphs into ongoing corruption by the government. This is a real problem but not really a problem with capitalism per se. The activists may mean well but without more focus are truly anti-productive. And they need to get an education in economics to understand that capitalism is the solution not the problem.

These are thhe children of the Hanoi Jane Fonda generation. Do not take them lighlty. They are being directed by the progressives in our colleges. Sure some of them will go home bragging about things they supposedly caused to happen but keep in mind that we will see more Bill Ayers and Barack Obamas coming out of stuff like this. If you want to get a look at the intelligence of our youth take a look at today's Express-Times editorial on the States are failing at teaching Civil Rights history. The author, a graduate of Rutgers and a PhD candidate at Lehigh, has numerous historical errors and has simply twisted the history he is attempting to explain.

Wow. What a lot of conservatives read the Easton Patch. Who knew? I'm impressed with the massive protests. They are very much in the spirit of Thomas Jefferson. Wall Street has done great damage to working people in our country while making themselves ever wealthier. The rich get richer and the middle class & the poor get poorer. Social services & the arts & education get cut. I wish I could get to Allentown at noon or Manhattan today.

Josh Miller has a PhD from an Ivy League university, has taught at Berkeley and Princeton, is a published expert in his field (with more than twice as many publications as you have fingers and toes), and teaches government and history at one of our country's most highly respected colleges. He never speaks without facts.

Here's a fact you may have overlooked: the Wall Street banks have grown so large that they have been able to socialize their risk (making the public pay for their bad investments) while privatizing profit. Had the banks failed, all of our pensions would have gone down the toilet, so the government could not let them fail. But the banks have more power than Congress and were able to use some of the bailout money we gave them for obscene executive bonuses--with impunity. And they continue to use their power to undermine the Dodd-Simpson regulatory reforms passed by our democratically elected government. No wonder Josh and others with facts sympathize with the protesters. I see a lot of name-calling in this space. And I see a lot of sympathy for the Wall St. banks. They even have our Patch readers fooled.

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

Hey John Galt, the correct quote is the "the love of money is the root of all evil". And there is lots of money love on Wall Street. Greed and corruption exists on Wall Street as it does everywhere, but it has much greater impact leveraging billions and trilions. As for Larry, Terri, Steve and Chris, thank goodness the naive young people protest. It keeps us thinking. We establishment types have accepted the corrupt status quo. I hang with Steve Wagner and Joshua Miller. As for Chris Miller, you sound like a bitter old man. You still buy the Hanoi Jane mythology. 99 percent of us who opposed the Vietnam War did not like what she did either. Nothing was "forced" on the banks. But I agree that government is as corrupt as the investment banks. I also agree that the American public is asleep most of the time. If they were awake, Glass Steagall would still be in effect. And if they woke up now, there would be milions protesting Wall Street.

But don't think I am a commie. I also don't like the way the inefficient welfare state operates. And I do favor capitalism, market economy and profit motive because its roots lie in the great liberal tradition of individualism and it is the best engine of wealth creation . But I think the main problem with our capitalism is that it is not equally opportunistic. You need money to make money and most of the money is aggregating to the top of the pyramid. As for the poor and lazy who will aways be among us, ethically and according to all religious belief, we who have are obligated to take care of them. We do need more charity from the rich. And since they mostly hoard their wealth, society, via govt, has to tax them to spread the wealth. So be it. I don't know another solution.

From their own website
"Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants."

This is the most vague and goal-less and meaningless cause I could ever imagine! Can't believe so much time and effort is going into it.

Wayne
I get upset when government continues to pick my pocket by passing programs to assist those in what is now a generational entitlement program. I have worked all my life starting with mowing yards, washing and waxing cars, painting, teaching, and working as a realtor. I work because I believe it gives your live value. Entitlement programs do not do that. As to the oil companies, you might recall that the oil companies in front of a congressional committee noted that said subsidies were tax breaks written into the tax code by Congress. As for spending money on WMDs, what would you have done. I would have gathered info on what I was hearing, present it to Congress, and ask them for a declaration of war. Think how that might have affected the game. How about Obama and his role in Libya? Why are we there? As for the spill in the Gulf, I view it as an accident as was the case in Alaska. I also belive that we should be drilling on land not the waterways. What regulation could you have put into place that would have stopped that? Was no one watching what was going on.in the Gulf and if so why was that the case? As for the bank melt downs who is really in charge at the banks. Have you looked at the coziness of the banks and the government. If the derivatives were evil why were they allowed. Why were banks forced to make bad loans to individuals with no credit and in some cases no job.

Let me comment once again, Terri. You call us druggies and losers. I take offense at that. I am neither. Did you come out to talk to any of us? Do you feel that you can sit back and make these generalities without having the decency to check out the facts?

The whining appears to be coming from you. You have not addressed the points that I am making. I don't want your money but I would like to see a tax system that is fair and not all the loopholes for business. Get to work??? I have been looking for work since being laid off. There is nothing out there except minimum wage jobs that don't come close to my old salary. The revolution is coming!!!

If you can forgive Terri's poor grammar, flawed punctuation and slowly deteriorating logic, I think she has a point. The Democrats are just as much to blame as anyone else for this mess. Had they voted to reinstitute the regulations in Glass-Steagal, we would be in a much better place. But, Wall Street has purchased our political system outright and both parties are tainted. Which, is a large part of the frustration felt by those doing the protesting. Both sides have, in fact, screwed us and left us without any way to redress our grievances. Oh, except to take to the streets in protest.

I stopped by and chatted with the Occupy Allentown forces after work today. Good people who have many of the same concerns as the rest of us but I don't agree with their solutions. They're worried about gov't being co-opted by the rich, politicians being bought. The solution, many of them think, is to publicly fiance elections. That's just another layer of gov't (incumbent) control. Instead, how about a government that doesn't pick the winners and losers through unequal enforcement, subsidies, bailouts, and regulations that only the largest companies can afford. A constitutional government that cannot do these things does not have politicians bought to provide them. Fix the root of the problem, not add to it.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26915

LISTEN to the LINK below, starting at about the "3:00" marker, to find out what is the central grievance. It is basically the Citizens United ruling by the Supreme Court, which urgently needs to be squashed by a constitutional amendment.
http://www.npr.org/2011/10/03/141019162/wall-street-protests-spread-to-other-cities

So you are ok w/ the concept that corporations must be given the full constitutional rights and protections granted to all individual citizens, despite the facts that (1) corporations are far wealthier than individuals, (2) corporations by charter must only have the interest of advancing their bottom lines (cannot have the interest of society at heart), and (3) corporations intrinsically do not fear punishment from their wrongdoing, since they cannot be jailed?

Demonize the Occupyers as drug-induced losers, while genuflect before the greedy, sky-is-the-limit moneymen who seem to hunger for more. Typical uninformed protestations from the right. This movement, just like the Tea Party, could snowball once it gets traction. I can only sit by and observe, but I wish Wall Street comes to its senses and give some jobs for the unemployed, being job creators as they are known to be. This is all the Occupyers are trying to convey.

Amazing how they protest Wall Street who gives most of their money to elect DEMOCRATS! Maybe all those protesters should start looking for a new party to join!

And, if you are upset about the government tax loopholes for corporations why don't you protest in Washington? Why protest at Wall St and other towns. Though this movement fascinates me I do haven trouble understanding it.

I'll keep that in mind. Some jobs created by government that has not gone away: Superintendent of schools, Vice President, Secretary of State, Ambassabdor to Japan etc etc etc.

Wayne
As is the case with many of the uninformed you have never been to a Tea Party meeting. Keep in mind that these groups do vary on issues. As to Americans paying more what would you expect with a nation that is full of regulations. The governent does not create jobs they hire people to fill slots. They engage in baseline budgeting and printing money. That increases our cost of living. More troublsome is that the government has become less interested in creating policies that will encourage job creations. One large example is Obamacare. Businesses are holding on to their money because they don't have all the costs in front of them. If you are truly interested in making change let's discuss cutting the campaign season for both the primary and national elections. Let's have a national primary or divide it up into 4 primary voting days in April. Let's allow campaigning for the primary season in March. No campaigning over the summer. Pick up campaigning at the end of September and end it the week before the election. How about politicians must raise money in their district and in the case of senators in their state. No outside funds. Let's consider going back to appointing our US Senators. As to the so called balanced budget, I would remind you that unless we are including the off the books items we have not and will not have a balanced budget. Too finsh this off let's agree that we are going to emphasize personal responsibility and both community and individual charity.

A great book to read is called The forgotten man. The real truth about the great Depression

We could also lower the Corporate Tax Rate so that we are not an unattractive country to do business in. This would help to create jobs that truly will help create wealth and improve our economy, unlike the stimulus package.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/business/economy/03rates.html

I have witnessed some Tea Party rallies and saw people carrying guns, heckling speakers, stomped on a protester's head...I don't see those as adult behavior. Now, let's see those filthy rich Wall Street kind hire unemployed people instead of looking for more ways to rip the poor and middle classs some more. By the way, I just cancelled my account with Bank of America which can't seem to stop itself from gouging us further. Now people wonder why there are protesters in the streets. And I am called a communist. I am not anti-capitalism; I have money invested in the market. I am just asking for fairness. These guys can't be happy unless they insult people.

I am so tired of the sanctimonious spin that the Teafolk put on history. They reminisce about good ole days that never were. They would have us believe that sending 14 year-old boys into mine shafts or letting 12 year-old girls get mangled in horrific industrial accidents somehow contributed to a sense of national character. I, for one, think the rampant racism, sexism and blatant disregard for safety or the environment are scars upon our country and I would NOT like to see us go back there. It is important to have a perspective on history. That is true. And many of the protesters lack that, but so does the Tea Party. For example, many of the protesters have equated themselves with the Arab Spring movement which was a revolution against violent dictators...do we have that here? Hardly. The Tea Party likes to refer to Obama as a tyrant. Really? By what definition? Sounds like both sides need to get down of the soap boxes and pick up a history book. Every freedom we have was won by struggle. There is no Freedom Fairy that drips Liberty down on our heads. And if you'll indulge the extended metaphor, there is no Troll stealing it from us either. This is folklore.

I guess my point and problem with the tea party and the right wing in general can be summed up in the following statment: The right wing does nothing to combat the most wasteful and pathetic of government spending but complains about all spending when it seems to benefit the most vulnerable. Nothing is said about corporate welfare, the insane amount of military spending, foreign aid to counries that hate us, nation building in Iraq in Afghanistan are you kidding me!
http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm
If these supposed fiscal conservatives would speak up about any of this I may consider joining. However, after witnessing the Bush Presidency and present trends of those on the right, I will never vote Republican again.

No Carter I do know you. I have seen you coming for years. But what is it that you have done to better you country or is it your goal to bring anarchy? By the way the path to success has not changed al that much

Terri, would you please start making sense? It would be helpful if your words were actually connected into coherent thoughts by using punctuation and grammar. Or is that simply the Socialist Department of Education telling you how to think?

Wayne
Exsctly how many gazillions would you like the government to spend? We are trillions of dollars in debt. In PA we spend 13k per student per year for their education. We gave millions to a solar power plant that built the panels for $6 and sold them for $3.The person in the White House knew this. I could go on but I would run out of charcters Wake up

Are you interested in cutting defense, subsiddies to the oil companies, and foreign aid to countries that hate us? I know the tea party does not want to spend money on education and other unworthy causes.

Mr. Chris Miller
Now I am called a liar...But who the hell are you to censor my opinions here on the Patch?..If you can't debate rationally, maybe you should get off the page...The images shown on evening TV broadcasts were evident for all to see, unless you see only what you want to see..You can call me and others names if that makes you happy but that doesn't make you a better person...For my part, I'll not stoop to your level of arrogance...I am not going to tell you what to do...I am not going personal with anybody...I'll just say what I think of current events...This is a free country...Do what ever you want within bounds of decency...Now, about the Occupyers, I mentioned earlier that this movement is indeeed getting traction because we now see similar sit-ins in other cities...These groups cannot be all drug-induced losers, as some of you suggested,..These are not communists either, as you, Chris called them...They are just part of the disgruntled individuals who can't take Wall Street abuse anymore, just as the tea partyers complained about big government...Free country, remember?..We have rights and we don't have to cower to name calling.

For some comic relief, here are the Occupy Wall Streeters list of Demands...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

Oh my goodness Communism! Now everybody should be trembling because the C word has been tossed into the discussion. Joe McCarthy would be so proud! Do you have a list of Communists in the government? Let me guess, Obama is at the head of the list?

Thugs, Rosemary B?..Maybe, like Mr. Chris Miller, you refuse to acknowledge TV news broadcasts...A Rand Paul admirer stomped on a lady's head to the pavement...That behavior is thuggish to me...And Mr. Miller, I am not making up those images I saw on TV...And that, sir, is the truth...What about your accusations of communism?..Is there truth to that?..These protesters are fed up with getting "fleeced" by your Corporate Wall Street buddies...Many of them, as I am, dabble in the markets and are not anti-capitalism...They see economic inequality...Let's concentrate our debate on this, instead of name calling...I could play the same game but I'd rather talk on FACTS, not innuendos...The FACT is Wall Street is occupied by many greedy entrepreneurs...Let's change this through PEACEFUL PROTESTS...I know what I am talking about so please don't tell me what to do.

Wilfredo
I have been listening to the news since 7AM. Where did the kicking of the head by a Ron Paul supporter occur? Nothing on the News. I did see and read that your fellow protesters wanted a pure democracy. That is insane. A pure democracy brings anarchy as was the case with the French Revolution. Under a pure democracy you have majority rule with absolutely no protection for the voice of the minority. Look at one of your supporters Roseann Barr who wants to brng back the guillotine the weapon used in the French revolution. Ms Barr is recommending an overthrow of our government. That is treason. You need to read some history because you are an illiterate when it comes to that topic

I've heard some people are selling "Capitalism is Evil" T-shirts for $19 each! Oh, the irony...

Ms. Simpson...You come in here and criticize bad English and yet you cannot construct a proper sentence by skipping your punctuation marks...I am sorry that I refuse to debate people with twisted logic (righties are angels, lefties are thugs rants), stating accusations that have no basis (I did not PERSONALLY witness the silliness of your friends, I saw them on TV...Please go back to the post which I wrote about it)...Obama machine paying protesters?..Did you forget about Freedom Works and the Koch Brothers bankrolling the righties' movement?

Wilfredo,
If you take the time to look you will see that I noted the head stomping that you mentioned. She was a member of moveon.org, a Soros orginazation intent on over throwing our government. The individual who steped on her head was a Ron Paul suppoter and he should have spent time in jail after his trial Note this took place a year ago.
If you had studied histroy you would ultimately come to the conclusion that all of the "isms" are really the same whether it is Nazism, Facism, or Communism. They all end up as state controlled governments. They have different faces, Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mussolini, Mao, Pol Pot, you name it. But you might want to turn your attention to the caliphate of Islam. A very interesting thing has been happening in Islam in that the Sunnis and Shi'its are becoming bosom buddies. These two groups of Islam are supposedly enemies. You also might want to check on the impact of the Muslim Brotherhood, the guys who killed Sadat, and their presence here in the USA in large numbers. Did you know that they are in the porcess of setting up enclaves where they have already put Shira law into place in those communities. You just keeping trucking along blaming the banks who repaid their bill to the government--you knew that right? To GM who paid back the government. Your heard your president say that those shovel ready jobs weren't really shovel ready? So where, you might ask, did the money go? I am still waiting for answers to your initial posts

Rosemary B...Mr. Miller may be the genius you prefer to see him as, but the way he goes about his commentaries are way out of my comprehension...He labels the protesters as communists, resorts to name-calling (excrement, illiterate)...I find this behavior unfit for an educated man...Let us debate in a civilized manner and leave the gutter prose where it belongs...Also let us drop the "holier than thou" approach because this just muddies the conversation...Either side cannot claim full righteousness since both are guilty of commission.

God Bless anyone that wants to preserve the Constitution unlike Soros and the left that wants to destroy it.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/video-exposing-occupy-wall-street-was-organized-from-day-one-by-seiu-acorn-front-the-working-family-party-and-how-they-all-tie-to-the-obama-administration-dnc-democratic-socialists-of-america/

Might find this interesting..

Rosemary B...You may not be aware that the Koch Brothers are not themselves as clean as you might think...They are being looked into for their transactions with Iran...Let us wait and see what comes out of this...As I said, either side is without sin.

Rosemary
All is well. Liam is just a bit taller then me and the voice is deeper every day. He eats as though he has a 10,000BTU furnace in his belly but stays at a svelte 125lbs. Two great grand children, the boy walks that land as though it is all his at the age of almost 2 and the girl is absolutely gorgeous with dark blue eyes and black hair. I am more in awe of the work that God does as I look at those precious youngsters.

Rosemary B...If Mr. Miller knows what communism is then he is not an idiot, but he called me a communist and he doesn't even know me...That's idiocy...(I'm sure you read what else he called me)...I don't have to define what the the word since he is a highly educated individual, but let me say this...I love the market, communists don't... I earn some money, and I lose some too...I am still waiting for his apology for calling me a liar, but with his kind of arrogance, I'm not sure I'm not gonna get it...This next lines are for Mr. Miller (there's no Reply button under his post)...Sir, I must identify myself as a naturalized U.S. citizen as you can discern from my strange looking name...Maybe that's a good excuse of writing in imperfect English, but I try my best to express myself...But that is an inappropriate order from you to tell me to skip a couple of years to learn to speak up....Now, on your earlier posts, unlike you, I never castigated anyone unless as a response to what was personally said about me (a communist, a liar, illiterate)...I can do this as well as you do, but this is not my way...Just as the Koch Brothers would come out clean, Mr Holder could, too...As far as Solyndra, I would not go there...After all the Bush administration initiated this transaction and Obama inherited it like the mess it left behind...As far as smarts go, I surrender to Ms. B...And oh, congratulations on your next job at the Nazareth School Board.

Karen, wow had no idea that my personal life and my job is of much interest to you. Sounded almost like a nice threat. It's very typical insults and threats come from people that the truth stings. I am a proud American and love my country and yes I support the Tea-Party and I am not a coward . My job is none of your business and your concern is not wanted. We are speaking on a topic not my personal life so keep to the topic and not use subtle threats to shut people up.

I'm glad everyone has a lot to say about this topic. That's great! Please, however, be civil and respectful toward one another -- regardless of your personal point of view. It's very easy to get carried away when discussing political issues, perhaps today more than ever. Thanks for the lively discourse.

Eric Cantor's indictment of the Wall Street protesters: Dangerous mobs...A typical uninformed, obviously partisan commentary...I have not seen anyone in the crowd with a gun, but a bunch of guys were seen strutting their weapons around in Tea Party rallies...It's legal, but looked silly to me...Drugster Rush Limbaugh came up with human debris..."Let those without sin, cast the stones".

Even the people whose opinions I differ with might find this article and videos interesting. They are about Agenda 21 and they definitely tie in with "Income equality" and a lot of the things these protesters want. The Blonde in the second video down is a Liberal Democrat Lesbian addressing a Tea Party Group and you would be surprised how much they have in common! Would love to see The Patch do a piece on Agenda 21 and Redevelopment and how it is effecting the Lehigh Valley! Cause after you watch this you will realize that it is here as well...

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-the-soros-sponsored-agenda-21-a-hidden-plan-for-world-government-yes-only-it-is-not-hidden/

A similar protest will be forming in Easton...I'll be there to show my solidarity to the downtrodden among us...These protests are bringing attention to the severe economic inequality between the haves and the have-nots...Why is it so hard for many to understand that the majority of the citizens are suffering so much for no fault of their own, in defernce to Herman Cain who declared that its the poor guys' fault that they are where they are...Most of them have either been laid off or just coudn't find jobs...They are not asking for handouts, just fairness in this broken economic system...Hopefully, those in places of influence and power can see their pleas...It is so unfair to label them as dregs of society (human debris by drugster Rush Limbaugh, drug-induced losers, communists by some Patch bloggers)...The Tea Partyers made their wishes known, so why can't these sad folks do the same?

(Why is there no Reply button on some of these posts?)...Anyway, for Rosemary B...I thought I mentioned earlier that either side are guilty of wrongdoings...This should end your query on this subject...Lastly, don't you think the Tea Partyers had all the time in the world to waste doing what they did?..Wall Streeters should be able to waste their time, too, don't you think?..You can't have monopoly in this democracy...Good for goose, good for gander.

Still no condemnation for the destruction of property and beatings. It is a FACT not any tea-party person has been arrested in fact the people that pretend they are Tea-Party people get thrown out quickly Funny some want the truth to go away I am still waiting to see the tape where TP people urinate on property destroy and spew out disgusting hateful things cause millions in cleanup and broken windows graffiti. PLEASE prove me wrong show me a grandmother smoking dope and tea- party family's getting arrested.Tea- party people had jobs not like the trash you see the street. Prove me wrong and condemn bad behavior from your side I am more than willing to say if anyone spews hate or destroys property that claims to be a conservative is totally a stupid idiot and should go to jail just show me the tape. But not one person from the left has the decency to look into there own party and condemn bad behavior.

Rosemary B...I thought I read somewhere that protesters would be gathering in Easton on Sunday at the Scott Park...I tried to look for it everywhere but couldn't find it...Sorry, madam, but keep your eyes and ears open for announcement...I'll be doing the same.

There's a short story on easton.patch.com today linking to the group's Facebook page.

Wayne
You just might want to look into the new books on McCarty and the inforrmation from the old Soviet Union and KGB. Yes indeed he was an alcoholis but it did not stop him from coming up with information on communists in our government.

Some ignore the facts because he would mean they would actual have to think about TRUTH it is not a tea-party theory it is factual and I'm laughing because the Messiah that is in favor of this protest is the biggest benefactor of wall street. Wall street is very liberal it's too funny!!!

To Mr Chris Miller, re:10/8 3:43 PM post:..Thanks but no thanks...I have heard from all kinds of media, conservative/liberal about this group and I refuse to go along with their (your) ideologies...You, sir, don't have the monopoly of altruistic endeavors...Me and my wife are also involved in community affairs (my wife ran for the school board but lost because of no "machine"..Yes, we vote, too), we are members of our township action committee, we are voracious readers/watchers of politics, we like LEPOCO (laugh if you like),..And you know what?..Since your Tea Party practically occupied the House of Representatives, the US economic rating was downgraded to AA instead of AAA...The public regards the House much less than your hated President Obama...So no, thank you...You can stick with your ilk and I'll stick with mine...That's Democracy isn't it?.. or as you prefer, Representative Republic...Please spare me this high falutin' "holier-than-thou, mine is better than yorn" attitude.

Wayne
You are still wrong about MCarthy. Do you research. On top of that the worse president is the second term of Jimmy Carter with the guy we now have in the White House. Carter will fall into the number 2 spot for all time worse president.

Ok research man tell wht you think you know. I've studied McCarthy and some of the information released by the Former Soviet Union. The lists he claimed he had were mostly crap. Many of the names were from people already investigated or being investigated. His accusations towards the military were especially crap. The army conducted their own investigation and no communist espionage was found at the Fort Monmouth military facility. He was correctly censured by the Senate and then he lost the next election. What makes him so corrrect now and such a hero? because their was a network of spies including the Rosenburgs and Whitaker Chambers? No kidding. Is it because their were plenty of spies and communists around? That does not exonerate this guy. He tossed the the word Communist around just like the right does today in ways that are inappropriate. So Chris please educte me. What great truths did Joe McCarthy bring forth that he was not given credit for? Why is history wrong about this guy? The fact that communists did try to help the Soviets insided this country does not excuse this drunkin liar. By the way, Truman who was a favorite target of McCarthy for a while, was correct in firing McCarthur.

Disobedient protesters got pepper sprayed in DC at museum after being told no signs were allowed they held a guard got sprayed by another guard. Oh the gift keeps on giving. NYPD says the occupy Wall Street protesters are costing the city millions. Chickens coming home to roost. Oh poor Obama where shall he get his millions looks like his Wall street buddy's are not very happy.

Mr. Genius Chris Miller...Where did you get that congressional ratio of House membership?..There are so many of them Mr. Boehner cowers under pressure...Result?..Dysfunctional congress, ergo, S&P blamed the downgrade on them...This never happened until your guys took over...You should be ashamed, as I am ashamed of the Vietnam War, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars...Such unnecessary loss of human lives and resources...Long live LEPOCO (No, I am not a member for personal reasons, but I like what they are doing)...I am not surprised of your vilification of them...I refuse to acknowledge your group who intends to "drown the government in a tub"...I need the government to regulate clumsy groups such as yours: no EPA (a Nixon environmental), let the banks and Wall Street go berserk and fleece the people some more (these guys got bailed out by our tax dollars and we get manure for gratitude), eliminate the unions, less cops, teachers, nurses needed, let the infrastructure collapse (poor Eisenhower), let's continue to pollute (hey, it;s money for the Koch Brothers and energy corporations, meanwhile we all choke to death on filthy environment)...Yes, Mr. Miller, this is the kind of existence you crave for...Thank goodness there are groups who disagree with your agenda.

Careliss fills
I cannot disagree with a word you say about Kennedy but to his credit he did lower the taxes. Carter almost brought down the nation with his economic plan. On another note I was a big fan of JFK and actually saw him in 1960 when he came to Moravian College. He looked liked the devil primarily because he had lost so much weight. A huge disappointment. I would put him at 3rd with Obama and Carter in 1st and 2nd mistake.

Rosemary B...Yes, that unidentified man's behavior is disgusting...No sane person would like to see that...But are there more of them?..In fact, a lady was seen doing hula hoops, but you purposely omitted that because it is uplifting at a moment like this to see but you see only what you want to see, the disgusting ones...Like Faux Fox News slogan Fair and Balanced...Once again (I hope this is the last time I tell you this): Neither side has the monopoly of righteousness...Have a nice day.

Nancy
As I told Wilfredo, I really don't care if your husband is a LEPOCO member. They are primarily the peacenik hippies of the '60s. So be it. As to the matter of congress and the debt ceiling issue, allow me a question how much money willl we have to spend to make you happy. In the Washington Post of March 26, 2010 they note that Obama's 2011 budget will "generate $10 trillion dollars in cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years." By 2020, 90 cents of every dollar we collect will go to paying off the national debt. Not Who is to blame for this? Is it Boehner? Is it Obama? Was it the Tea Party? It is the person you see every time you look in the mirror. Since we were the folks who fell asleep at the switch shouldn't we be the people to fix it? If you truly want to see what happened to us take a look at the GEICO ad with the parents telling us that they have taught their 5 year old son to dunk a basketball because saving was hard. Says it all.

Wayne
There is more to the Army thing and I am not sure anymore what it is. Will have to do some research. I just wish we would stop our businesses from going to China and being forced to give up goodied to them on the stuff they build. I also would like to know what happened to all those Buddists nuns who contributed to Al Gore. What I really miss is the two parties supplying us with good and decent candidates at all levels.

Nancy
Are you kidding me? Your news source is aljazeera and you believe that two very wealty men can give come up with enough money to save the world. And, of course, it is always the Tea Party's fault. You might want to check out what John Lewis went through this week end. Pay attention to the "useful idiots" in Atlanta.These folks are going to bring us the French Revolution. By the way you might want to check out the plan known as Agenda 21. It is going to be a big thing in our lives particularly if you are a business man or own a home.

The 1% are not just billionaires, like the occupyers think. "According to IRS tax data, anybody earning $380,354 or more qualifies for membership in the top 1 percent."

Man, how I wished to be in this 1% club...Of course, it's my fault (according to Mr. Herman Cain) for being with the 99% collection of losers and should not go out there to occupy and expose the unfairness of how many of these 1 percenter got there...The system is rigged in their favor, and their defenders cry foul because now we are beginning to understand their modus operandi: engaging in risky speculation (with our money) and peddling worthless papers...Wake up, people...We are getting dragged down to the cleaners.

Protesters 6 arrested they surged into the senate office. Great Job today showing everyone how Radical they are. I wonder how much it is costing the taxpayers for all the police??? It is so disgusting but I am happy that finally people are looking at this and the Democratic party and saying is this what the party stands for. So keep up the destruction because if we are lucky it will destruct the Democratic party just like in the 60's.

Dear Patch,
Might I suggest that, before anyone is permitted to post, our sentence construction and grammar be scrutinized so that readers can understand what we are trying to say.

" liberty, once lost,is lost forever"

1.9 million in overtime to police NY "occupy wall street"

Wow, Terri, it seems like the demonstrators have really got under your skin!

Nazaretti,
No actually I am thrilled with this it is a gift. I do like to set facts straight

Aaaaargh!...I wanted to reply to Chris Miller's unending put down comment yesterday, but the Reply button is not there (Ms Rosemary B instructed me how to do it to no avail)...Anyway, here it is...Chris. much as I try to rebut your concerns, you appear to miss the gist of what I write...From here on, I am not even going to attempt to "explain" myself since you do not have the capacity to comprehend any of it...You just come on with your personal insults (liar, communist, illiterate)...You even called someone a sack of excrement...What was that all about?..I expect that kind of gutter language from a school drop out...Your labels of me were made without basis in fact: liar?-You admitted I told the truth...Communist?-I dabble in the market, communists are anti-capitalism, unless you did not know that...Illiterate?-You don't even know me...Apologies? Not in your upbringing...You wouldn't like it if I called you a creep, would you?..But I'm not going to do it because I am a decent person...So, rant away if you wish and make a fool of yourself.

Nancy,
If what you said was truthful these protesters would embrace the Tea- party and they would not cause millions in damage and defecate on police cars and try to intimidate people in there private homes. The Tea-party is for Limited government fiscal responsibility no more bailouts bring back prosperity You state about civility well between Wilfredo and you it's been vicious but Obama and his administration rant about playing nice yet they are the most guilty and play dirty and lie for the power.
Occupy wall street is his base Obama is managing the decline of America. Obama is the king of community organizing it's not organic everyone knows it. I must say this is a gift because this surely will backfire and making Obama a one term president. Will you demand a shut down of speech again because you are not happy with others opinions? Will you keep on insulting people and blame them for the very thing you are doing? I would suggest you stop watching MSNBC and CNN and really do research on the Tea-Party and you will find maybe that's the group for you. I would more than gladly find a meeting for you to attend . I am sure you really want Limited government no more bailouts and hold people accountable. I have a tee shirt waiting for you Tea-Party Patroit

Truth are lies and lies are Truth. It's so funny that the principals of the Tea- party are not embraced by Occupy Wall Street and the defenders of this group, they completely ignore the destruction and the millions of dollars the taxpayers will be on the hook for. It's very interesting to see how the conversation turns when the truth is exposed. It's my treat a very nice tee shirt showing how much you love this country or I could get a tee shirt made up saying "It's Bush's fault forever" and on the back " I hate capitalism" you know there are enough people down on wall street that would love this tee could make a small fortune.

Wayne Schissler
Let me add that this movement is just as dangerous today as it was under countless individuals who ended their movement with some kind of "ism" The problem with this group is that they refuse to recognize the role of every individual in this nation and that our real problems are in Washington DC. Yesterday Mr. Obama announced that not only is he breaking up his Jobs Bill into several pieces, he once against threatens to circumvent Congress by using an Executive Order(s). Why are we allowing that?

Dear Wilfredo, I have said this before, LIMITED GOVERNMENT is very different from NO GOVERNMENT. No sane person on the right wants to drown the government in a bathtub and make it disappear altogether! Some would like it to be limited by the authority given to it by the Constitution.

Here is an interesting column written by Senator Susan Collins from Maine about how Regulations are effecting small businesses in her state. These are the types of crazy things that need to be limited in order to create jobs

http://collins.senate.gov/public/continue.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.WeeklyColumn&ContentRecord_id=25593644-fe69-0878-1f86-80c45adcc09f&;

I am in the phone book...I do not have any ulterior motive to be incognito...You can come to my house and hurt me, but that does not solve anything...Don't waste your time calling either because I have a caller ID...I don't pick up on unfamiliar callers...so let's debate here in a civilized manner, no more sack of excrement expletives, shall we?

Wilfredo
You have shown your ignorance about our Founding an Founders. You think you will make points with us by proposing an "ism" form of government.. You support a group of ignorant protesters whose numbers don't come close to those who are in the Tea Party. . As to the form of government we desire, it is government with a small "d". The Founders looked upon the states/commonwealths as laboratories. They were to be free to try various things pertaining to various issues. The most successful would be adopted by the rest. Tom Corbett's decision to allow the counties to tax the gas companies in northern PA is a perfect example. Given that the work is being done there those counties need the money thus they should levy the tax. Non-drilling affected counties should not get any money from the state on this issue. Another example is illegal immigrants in that the states need to handle the issue because the Federal government is unable or uniwilling to do it. Last but not least we need to strip the Congress of its abuse of the commerce clause. In closing let me suggets that you get the Express-Times today Read George Will's editorial on Page A4. Pay particular attention to your president's involvement with the Solyndra matter. Can you say crook. You need an education when it comes to the history of this nation because standing by the plans of the Founders does make my Righteous. We were and are a nation founded on morals and religion. While you are at it check UN Agenda 21

Nancy
The limits of the government our defined in the Constitution and those powers are enumerated. Articles One, Two and Three are the basic outline. You will not find them in any paper from the Middle East. Don't worry about jobs because governments don't provide jobs they provide policies that supprot those who want to build companies and create jobs. I am perfectly ok with doing away with those cabinet positions like the EPA, Department of Education, Homeland Security,, Department of Energy and all those that came after the Washington Administration. These departments are filled with over paid administrators and help. Please feel free to tell me all the great things done by the Department of Energy or Education. As to drugs. not all of it comes across the border because we have lots of it made here and legally grown here. Heck we had a meth lab blow up in Nazareth right across the street from the police station. The borough has drug dealing going on in the alleys. A meth home burned in Bushkill Township. These are all things that could and should be handled at the local, county or state level. I would wager, given that we spend 13K on average to educate our children in public school that we could find some smart people to assist us at a much cheaper price. If the Feds do not want to take care of the illegals why would they want to contribute money to stop drugs or bad air and water.

Gosh, sorry I've been so busy this week that I missed out on this long suffering debate! I don't have the time or the inclination to go back and read all the posts. One thing is patently clear, if you talk about money or politics everyone has an opinion! I do have to agree with MS O'Keefe, often times the grammar, word usuage and punctuation is so lacking that it is difficult to figure out what the poster is saying!

The Tea Party is a middle-class movement of people who want limited government, less spending, less debt, low taxes, and the repeal of ObamaCare. Occupy Wall Street isn't a movement. It's a series of events populated by a weird cast of disaffected characters, ranging from anarchists and anti-Semites to socialists and LaRouchies. What they have in common is an amorphous anger aimed at banks, investors, rich people and bourgeois values.
The Tea Party reveres the Constitution and wants to change laws to restore the country to prosperity. Occupy Wall Street started by occupying a New York City park and then blocked the Brooklyn Bridge, sparking the arrest of hundreds.
The Tea Party files for permits for its rallies and picks up its trash afterwards. Occupy Wall Street tolerates protesters who defecate on police cars, allows the open sale of drugs at protests, and features women walking around rallies topless.
The Tea Party has settled down to democracy's patient, responsible work, either by exerting influence on the Republican Party nomination process or educating Americans on the issues in order to hold politicians in both parties to account.
By comparison, Occupy Wall Street seems alienated by the American political system. It has no concrete agenda and no plan to become a political institution. Yet it needs both things to have an impact on politics or policy. Without them, Americans will be interested in Occupy Wall Street's weird and off-putting side show for only so long

Wllfredo, I do not mean you and I congratulate you for taking the initiaitve that so many who are new to our shores do not. I wish you only the best in your life and learnings about the American way. Welcome to the USA!

Wilfredoe
I have been keeping an eye on you pals. I have read their manifesto and it is the standard pap that comes from liberal youngsters as it did with the hippie generation. Thier ideas came from inducing drugs and alcohol--a problem then and now. If that is not the case maybe you can explain the defacating on the police car. As to your Paul Krugman, I will stay with the likes of Hyeck, Freidman, and Smith when it comes to the solid economists. In all reality, most folks look at the Nobel Prize as a joke. They gave it to the President and he had/has done nothing to deserve such an award. There is an old saying, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Have you ever spoken to someone who came to this country from places like Cuba, Hungary, Russia, Poland.I have. They came here because this nation gave them an opportunity to prosper and many that I knew did and do. They came here to be free something that we are less and less of in this nation. If a person is guitly of the crimes you tell us about without mentioning what they are, other then rich, that person will be fired and not only will but should stand trial. Read the Will article and tell me who should go to jail after all they did to bilk our government of $500+ million dollars. You want income equality. Are you really serious about that? Can you name one place in the world where that has succeeded? Check it out and let me know.

Government is the problem, not the solution (by guess who)...He did not say big government...Sounds like no government to me...Here's another doozy: Let us tax the rich for their fair share ((from the same guy)...So what's the problem?..It's not like we want all of their money to support the Occupyers and the nasty hate-filled liberals...If we taxed the filthy rich 75%, they still have money left to buy an island, mansions, hire people...A little bit of sharing should not hurt that much...Why would Warren Buffett be in lower tax bracket than me?..So unfair!

Nobel Prize Winner Obama.... Wilfredo, even Obama admitted it was completely undeserved. Since the award he's been a bigger war monger than Bush was (by liberal definition).

Rosemary
I honestly forgot that Al Gore had gotten the Nobel. Wasn't it for making clouds or something?

Obama did not ask for this award...It was given to him instead of bungling Bush...Obama inherited a mess of Iraq and Afghanistan and he is trying to end it in the best possible way and he is the war monger...McCain and other Republican war mongers want to bomb places some more to show the world who is boss...Give me a brake.

Wilfredo
So you are a legal immigrant from Mexico. Congratulations. Now all you need to do is go to history class. Of course my question is if you are all over the "isms" how did you ever acquire enough history to take and past the test? Just asking. As to your so called economist, he could not hold a candle to Adam Smith, Frederick Hayek, and Milton Freidman.Heck, he couldn't hold a candle to my economics professor, Dr. Yung, at Moravian College. I'll even toss in Samuelson as a better economist. Even better, Ronald Reagan was a better economist or Paul Volker and Alan Greenspan were better. My wife is a better economist then Krugman. I was not a big fan of George Bush but look what you guys tossed us, Gore or Kerry. Again, tell me what do you mean by income inequality. That smells like you are a bit envious of people who are rich. If you want that I'll wager you can find it in your home country. So why did you come here so that you could stick you finger in the eye of hard working Americans. Exactly what do you do for a living or are you living off of me and mind? You like to spit on this nation and the hard working people and then spout platitudes. Let's say we take 75% from those filthy rich people to pay our huge debt. How much exactly would we get from them? In fact why not take all of their money how much would we get to pay the debt and your salary? I have asked you numerous questions and you have been unable to answer any of them

Even the Nobel Prize is now being demonized because some awards were given to Democrats...Wasn't Milton Friedman, a Republican, also given an award on Economics?..Please, enough politics already...We should be glad these awards were given to Americans...This is what we are proud AMERICANS...I am hoping a genius Republican would get one soon, too...I would be rooting for the person instead of belittling him/her...Unreal!

Nancy
First off when I got up this morning the First Amendment was still in place. How dare you make such a comment. I will stand against anyone who would walk all over the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Declaration of Independence. We are in trying times and while I will vehemently disagree with someone I will let them speak. Shame on you but this is exactly what will happen if we don't get back to what this nation is all about. I am sure Nancy that you could find a Nation that would allow you to stop freedom of speech if they even have it.

You tell me to shut up but I am the hateful one. Are you married to Wilfredo:) There a happy face. So one is to come here and just go blahh, blah, blahh, blah, and blah all day long. Amazing.

The constitution is a document that does not exist in the Liberal mind.
Shutting down speech is nothing new for a liberal,Socialist or communist.
Hatred,class warfare,lies, propaganda, violence,entitlement blaming others for there pathetic lives is the mantra they spew. I think some real nice Real Estate can be purchased in N Korea.

Salisbury Resident...Mr. Miller called me a liar, a communist, illiterate without basis...No apologies, of course...He called someone a sack of excrement...If that's not hateful, I don't know what you consider pleasant.

Wilfredo
For all you know my wife has a PhD in economics. In days gone by a husband would have demanded satisfaction. But she's not. You might really want to concentrate on your history instead of almost insulting my wife. By the way, she does take care ot the books. I may have told you to go study history and then come back. If I did, my humblest of apologies.

Nancy,
Thank You, it's not too often I come across a brilliant mind like yours.I am flattered to know that someone like you could even respond to any of my post.I just wanted to invite you to the big bash I will be having ONE TERM OBAMA party when we will be rid of the worst president in history. Don't worry Nancy I will have plenty of tissues for you. Thanks again for being so nice and polite you know how some can be.. very rude and nasty must have horrible lives.

Chris Miller...On the Buffett issue, don't take it from me...He said it himself that his tax rate is lower than his minions...And mine...I can't argue with that.

Gee Wilfredo I give you a sincere apology and I noted my error on the MoveOn.org lady where a Ron Paul supporte stepped on her head though she was well enough to be in a video with no discernable marks. You also, as noted had failed that this incident had happened back in 2010. Now I get a back handed compliment and you continue to not answer a single question I have asked. Shame you are so lacking in manners and impolite to boot.

On the Warren Buffett tax issue - Why does our tax code penalize work by taxing salary & wages at a higher rate than investment income? Don't we want to encourage work?

I wouldn't worry about the Warren Buffett's of the world. The ones we should worry about are the "hollywoods, sports super stars and any of the others who are laughing all the way to their foreign bank accounts with the money YOU spend to put them where they are. Buffett, Gates, and a few others like them are putting their money where their mouths are, they are working to make this country a better place. What has Brangelina done for you lately????

Touche'!..No I am not concerned one bit about these philanthropists...I am just happy they are helping the universe...The other characters you mentioned, however, may not even realize that their wealth is being taxed higher than you and me...Brangelina have some charitable projects, too..Brad Pitt is working on setting up houses in New Orleans, and wifey pooh appears to be doing some International charity (not sure what).

Rosemary B...Re: Language barrier/thuggish behaviors...I don't know how else to say it but I thought I said I saw the incident on TV...And for thuggish behavior, my goodness Ms B, how else do you want me to tell you that I or any decent individual do not condone such criminal behaviors...You tell me.

Wilfredo
Tell you what I will do. Since you are incapable of accepting an apology I will retract it. You are still flirting with one of the "isms" and while you are tossing out your various leftist beliefs you continue to refuse to answer any of my requests. You believe in the continuation of the entitlement state where you look for a handout and not a job. You want us to believe that you are here legally from some place, you never said from whence you came.and you want us to believe you aren't a communist because you supposedly have money in the stock market. That is really hilarious. Its almost like the occupiers who hate corporations yet they carry iPhones and various products produced by corporations..

Wilfredo
You are an adherent to one of the "isms" examples are communism, progressivism, socialism, facism, etc. If you are on the left/liberal side of the political spectrum you fall into one of those spots. I don't believe you are a "Classical Liberaal" like our Founders and Framers nor or you a Conservative. So what is your ideology? Are you one of the Great Modeates that Rush is waiting for? You are illiterate because you have yet to cite anything you have read--I prefer something from our Founders or tell me you read the Constitution or Declaration of Independence. You can be illiterate when it comes to a subject area--but then you did not know that. Exactly what is a "fair shake" according to you. What exactly is a "level playing field" in your very humble opinion? Hate to tell you this and I know you will be surprised but there are a lot of people smarter then me. The difference between you and me is that I know that and you don't. When I don't know I look for the answer, ask my wife or call a friend in the field. I also ask questions. You prefer to speak in tongues.

Someone is in need for a double dose of Valium today. I think the pressure of the truth is making someone crazy. I have that tissue box ready for you. I know that kool-aid you have been hitting kind of hard lately. I have the cure some nice soothing tea or Rush Limbaugh makes a great one if you want it cold. I will even throw in a good read for you Mark Levin's- Liberty & Tyranny. Nancy have a wonderful weekend thank you again for those insanely brilliant messages.

Nancy
The first thing we need to do is cut spending and you do that by eliminating a pile of governmental departments like Education, Energy and EPA. Then you cut taxes and begin to back off programs such as Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. On top of that we need serious tort reforms and the discontinunce of nose bleeding legal cases. Those in the corporate world are not hiring because they are not completely sure of what is going to be the financial outcome of Obama care as well as Bush's drug plan. There is also the fact that we are now getiing individuals who are recognizing how Congress and both parties have abused the Commerce Clause. Top this off with things like getting rid of Public Unions. something FDR and George Meaney did not like, and we are on a way to the better life. If you do not believe we need to do anything at all allow me to suggest you go to the National Debt Clock and tell me all is okay. My French is a bit rusty so I prefer English, German or Pennsylvania Dutch.While you are at it check the Constitution Articles 1, 2, and 3. Real Enlightment there on governmental power

Nancy
Allow me to add a few words. First and foremost governments do not create jobs that is left up to those who run the businesses You might recall that Obama has said this on several occassions. Government can make policy to encourage business to create jobs with tax cuts one of them being the capital gains tax. Lower the rate and you will see investors doing more buying and selling of stocks. Raise the rate and the previoulsy mentioned will not occur. Lower the taxes and people will spend more on goods and services. We will begin to see that because prices on gas has declined but don't expect that to last. The Tea Party would supprt all of this. We are not going to get rid of government we want it smaller and more personal reaponsibility. Tea Party will also supprt that.

Wilfredo
The first president who worked to instill liberalism in this nation was Wilson. He was a Progressive who supported abotrion and eugenics. He supported the passage of laws that allow people to be sterilized because they werer "feeble minded". These laws existed into 1965. People were taken out of their homes and sterilized. Great book called War on the Weak. He told the nation he would keep us out of World War I.After the election we went into World War I under Woodrow Wilson. He supported the League of Nations and it failed. Did I mention he supported abortion. You will find these beliefs in all of the "isms" Remembeer the Jewish people and Hitler. Hitler was a liberal. Was there capitalism in Germany, the USSR, Cuba, China, Venezuela today. Listen to your pals the occupiers. They are all "ists" supproting an "ism" of one kind or another. You do not read history. I sincerely doubt that you are a citizen. And the major point is that you do not know who you are or what you stand for. You have no firm foundation because liberals fail to educate themselves. Instead they want to steal from me, complain about their jobs if they have one, and deficate on cars they do not own. Let me also call your attention to the fact that these heros in Boston spit on a female Coast Guard person and harassed her. Nice friends you have there. In NY a woman who owns a small restaurant has tried to keep the Occupiers out but can't and her business is down 40%. More nice pals you have.

Wow! You guys really got carried away with this one! I sure hope you can all simmer down and have a nice week-end.

Enough already! Go to bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wilfredo
You are true sad sack aren't you, You can't answer questions. You just love it in that pity pit don't you. Maybe you should join the Young Republicans or bettet yet the Tea Party. You might start to feel better.

There are over 350 comments on this story, from a lot of different people, with different ideas. Maybe that should tell the naysayers against Occupy why there are so many people out there protesting.

At this writing, the Occupy Wall Street protest has gotten global, with some pundit naming it Global Spring...There must really be amiss in the global financial system that every conceivable disenfranchised person has awaken from deep sleep of apathy and let frustrations prevail...A national giant once said "There are no tyrants where there are no slaves."..Point well taken.

Wilfredo
You really owe Terri an apology. Now. You set yourself up for all sorts of things. It could have been an informative discussion but you did not want to discuss. When you find yourself in a situation like this again you might want to find out both sides of the issue prior to the debate. That is how good debators win points and arguments. You also might want to listen and read. People who participated in this debate cited sources and I congratulate them for doing that. I may not agree with what they say or cite but i will stick by their side to say it. When someone begins to talk who is an obvious intelligent person, I have found that it is a good to to be quiet and listen. You seem more intend on getting your feelings hurt. and being a victim

Apologize, Chris?..I thought that term is foreign to you...I can understand you defense for Terri (pea in a pod) but she was the one who started piling on me, with characterizations I don't deserve...She should be the one who must apologize, but what's the use...I did not see any issue on her tirade she wanted to discuss...You guys pick on me as a target, now you are ordering me to apologize!..Till hell freezes over...I have nothing to apologize for, but you do...I haven't castigated anyone, you did...That sack of excrement on someone was a winner...Oh, my!

Check out Lisa Fithian, one of the organizers of Occupy Wall St.

Rosemary
You are correct on 999. The current mess we have, thank you Woodrow Wilson, is consistently used by those we elect to give them contracts. And you thought the tax bill was all about taxes. Far from it.

I will not glorify anymore of these insult-laden posts above...Obviously, civility is beyond their accepted vocabulariies.

It is so refreshing to witness the international reaction to global economic inequality where the rich get richer and the rest gets poorer...There is still hope for our government to respond to this phenomenon as the movement suggests...One way is to spend on infrastructure, education, others...This is going to be financed through taxing the rich (who are totally missing in this regard) to do their fair share...A little bit of increase on their income should not hurt them much.

Thanks to everyone who is participating in this robust debate. Posts that include name calling will be deleted. The comments section on Patch is available for an exchange of ideas, not insults.

Rosemary B
You did a great job of explaing you position and the position of many. i commend you for the cites you dug out and gave us for our own education. This is not going to be easy and and Glenn notes be prepared.

"This entire occupy Wall Street is plot to destroy America." Terri Simpson…….Really Terri ? Do you acyually believe that. Is there something in the movement's message of having had enough of corporate greed and and governmental acquiescence to their related crimes that makes you truly believe that this is a "plot to destroy America"? You have been barking like junk yard dog for two weeks on this train wreck of a conversation and you've done nothing but spew hatred and contempt.
You have put every American that is not a card carrying member of the Tea Party in a giant boat and advocated that it be set afire and subsequently sunk. And even worse you have taken another immigrant to this country who started out in this "conversation" in a very gentle and well spoken manner and you and your friend have backed him into a corner and made him defend himself for every word while you make insane comments like "I have found out all Liberals are rabid dogs when they are faced with the truth" Seriously…what does that even mean? You of all people (and I am making the assumption due to your grammar that English is a second language for you) should have some compassion for someone like Wilfredo.
Instead you and yours have worked overtime to alienate anyone that doesn't agree with you, trying so very hard to pit American against American. Sad. So please…stop trying to shout down anyone that doesn't agree with you and Chris…in other words …"Don't tread on me"…Peace.

This movement was spontaneous without any help from any wealthy group...That Soros suggestion is all hot air...We are all in this together...This should not be politicized at all...Besides, we have the right to protest under the Constitution. and no one should tell us to go home.

"It's easy to be an activist, it's not so easy to be an effectivist. You need well-researched and articulated demands that cannot be dismissed as being ridiculous."
Duff Connacher, founder of Democracy Watch,

Just came across this article in the Washington Post this AM stating that the Tea Party also started as a protest against the elites in Washington AND WALL STREET...These elites are stuffing themseves with goodies at our expense...I don't see why the naysayers are all upset about the OCCUPYERS when the two movements have much in common...Misinformation once again, I suppose from, guess where, FAUX FOX NEWS, Glenn Beck (they're gonna getcha) or drugster Rush Limbaugh.

Wilfredo
Two quick questions for you. What was the month, day, year and issue of the Washington Post? Have you ever sat down with a member of the Tea Party or the Occupiers? I am wagering you have not.

Nancy
Know I am afaid I am unfamiliar with the process or rhetoric the President Obama MUST FOLLOW. What I do remember is his cmment about it being "Just Words" as though they mean nothing at all and that is exactly how he sees them. I am not bestowing upon you the words of FNC. I am basing my comments on my 32 years as a history teacher, my 66 years of life and my constant reading that I so every day; I will not as note pay no attention to aljazeera as a source. As to the greed and corruption, I never said that I didn't find greed and corruption there. But Wall Street and the Banks are not the major problem and that, as I told you earlier, was the reason you include politics and politicians in the issue.

"Have you ever sat down with a member of the Tea Party or the Occupiers?"

I am a Tea Party member who has visited (those are pictures I took at the top of this page) and talked to the local Occupy Allentown group on the first day of their protest. I would say that their main problem, besides the kooks that are attracted to the movement, is a myopia on their view of what is the main problem.

They are fixated on the undue influence that the wealthy and corporations have on the federal government. Paradoxically the Tea Party shares some of that concern in that favored businesses and industries receive bailouts, subsidies, and special treatment. But the problem goes way beyond that in the average Tea Party member's view. Attacking just one aspect of government favoritism is only leaving the door open wider to all the other special interests out there.

For an illustration contrasting the OWS viewpoint with a less myopic one see:
http://lvtp912.blogspot.com/2011/10/variation-on-popular-venn-diagram-going.html

Just in case you would like to open your mind to another possible scenario.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/marxist-revolution-beck-shows-oreilly-how-organized-effort-guides-world-wide-occupy-protests/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/global-day-of-rage-reporting-inside-nycs-massive-occupy-times-square-march/

Mark is right but I do not share the belief that the truth is somewhere in the middle. However, extreme positions being almost always wrong is a notion I do accept. Interestingly, the right wing blasts the OWS movement as having terrible left wing views when in fact they have not taken a stand on any policy except that our system has become one that doesn't serve " the people of we are the people". This speaks to the fact that they cannot defend their radical views without making up false ones to attack. They are wrong that OWS is leftist. Tea Partiers have attended and are part of the OWS movement. You don't have to be leftist to support fellow Americans who don't have jobs. Cut taxes has been proven to be ineffective. Almost the same amount as the Bush tax cuts have been invested overseas, resulting in no effect in the USA except to those who benefited from the tax cuts. I agree with Mark that the Tea Party has values that coincide with OWS. Chris is too far gone; when one preens by listing his degrees at colleges but has no list of peer reviewed articles attached to make his point and states with certainty half truths, the dialog is not very meaningful. OWS is starting a movement that can result in having a strong middle class again. I hope we all get involved in taking back America! (something that is a Tea Party value also)

Limeport Resident
You old smoothie trying to win over the ladies. So I am to far gone. Your group has now been supported buy the Soviet Communists and the American Nazi Party. China is supporting you as are the Union thugs, the president of Iran and George Soros. Who will show up next. Don't know what you might be huffin and puffin but while some from the Tea Party might have been there to try to reason with you I sincerely doubt that any became your new found friends. You are out to destroy this nation. Were that not the case you and your group would denounce the supporters I have mentioned.

Mark
My so calles right wing propaganda happens to be history or historical books. Of course I know that you are avoiding the works of Bill Ayers and those supposedly written by our current man in the White House. You would never be caught reading the likes of Paul Krugman of the NY Times or Dana Milbank of the Washington Post with a little hint of Leonard Pitts from the MIami Herald. Now why don't you tell me about those things shared by you and the Tea Party. You can get Limeport Resident to assist since he is of the same mind. I also suspect we would never see you at MSNBC or some place of that nature. I would remind you that Rosemary B's resolve is akin to mine

Nancy
I will not disagree with you on Bush his lack of interest in regulation. I will remind you that this started with Jimmy Carter and the community reinvestment act. Carter, Reagan, and Bush 41 all pretty much ignored that act. Bill Clinton was of a different mind. By forcing the banks to reinvest in the communities where they had a bank it created the atmosphere of de-regulation. Bush continued that model.I would point out to you that with Sarbanes-Oxley there were 28 new regulations that attempted to slow things down. In 2002 the Bush administration was before congressional committees asking for more regulation. Google or Bing the Bush administration and their failure to regulate the banks and Wall Street. I've pointed out to you before that the answer lies in the politics. of the game. You talk about corporations moving overseas and taxes set up that allow guys like Immelt to keep his money in Ireland. It was legislation by Congress that allowed that to occur Just as it was legislation that allowed the commercial and investment banks to merge. We had stopped that when it came up at the beginning of the Great Depression. The tax system is indeed terrible, 71K pages. Again it is Congress that fiddles with that. There has been discussion for years on a Flat Tax or National Sales Tax. There is a huge discussion going on in PA on school boards losing the right to use property for taxing. How about that for a cause. It is supported by the Tea Party

I think this is what you're trying to post, correct?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/17/the-new-yorker-cover_n_1015280.html

They're gone.

I think so. I know some people have deleted their own comments in the past.

The Occupy movement is now more than a month old and yet we have not heard from the powers that be about any sort of investigation of the tricksters in Wall Street...One would suspect that those in authority positions are on the payroll of these magicians making this noble movement all for naught...Elections cannot come soon enough...(I hope many votes won't be disenfranchised by Governor Corbett with his voter ID requirement...Pennsylvania is one of the states trying this shenanigan, so I heard).

You did not and will not see an investigation of the people that you call tricksters for one of two reasons. There are no tricksters and the folks on Wall Street have contributed major money to the Obama campaign and many other campaigns. Ever watch the hearings Congress holds for the oil companies? After the congressmen hear what the oil execs. have to say they go out for drinks, dinner and campaign contributions. And this has lead you to the comment on PA having a voter ID. Why would you object to that? We already have a card we can use and that is our license. Do you really want people who are not registered to vote come in and vote despite the fact that they are here illegally here. This is not a shenanigan. Technically I believe that this can be done now since you are suppose to have your voter registration card on your person when you voter. Both poll watchers and others, the Judge of Elections, can ask to see this. If you do not have it you cannot voter. Are you familiar with what goes on in our own Commonwealth and in other places like New Hampshire. You can come from Massachusetts and go to New Hampshire and register saying that you are going to move to New Hampshire. You can then vote and move back home to Massachusetts. Citizens from Ohio can come to PA, register to vote, say they are going to move to PA, vote, go back to Ohio and have several years to move to PA--I think 5 years. This has been going on forever. Are you okay with this?

I am happy that you found that you have something in common with the Tea Party. What troubles me about your group is that they have some interesting backers, such as George Soros, the leader of Iran, the American Nazi Party and Vladimer Putin. On top of that I understand that your group is oppossed to corporations yet yesterday some one complained that their $5,500 Mac Tablet was stolen. There are all sorts of corporate items there. In fact today's Express Times has a picture in the A section noting that your gorup had received over $430K in credit card donations and 82K in on site contributions. The fact that you call for higher taxes on the rich shows me how foolish you really are. How many times do economists, a wide variety of them, have to tell you that you can take all the money of the rich and you still will not have enough. Here is one more for you. Obama has promised to cut the payroll tax aka social security contribution at a time when we are low on funds there. Today's paper tells us that inflation is up to 3.5% and seniors will get that increase in their SS checks next year. But it willl be less then that because medicare will be more expensive. One last question. If the Tea Party had not stopped them from raising the debt ceiling where do you think you would be? Would there be another 21 year old girl from OWS telling me and others that we need to pay for her education and she referred to the Tea Party as teabaggers--nice girl..

Medicare…maybe it's time to look at why medical attention costs so much. Debt ceiling…from what l know, and I'm sure that you'll agree it is little, we tax at approx 18% and we spend at approx 24%….an easy answer there..just a painful one…especially after Grover Norquist got all those Republicans to sign that pledge to never raise taxes again….man, where the hell did he come from ? As for me being "foolish" I am not. And it pisses me off when you say I am. I am another hard working American that sees things a little differently than you do. That's what makes our country great…remember?. And as for twenty year old children offering their ideas on how things should be….I have two of them and I have learned that they are like flies…always around…always making some sort of noise…but best off ignored..Peace.

Mark
The president from Iran didn't show up, Putin did not show up. The American Nazi party did not show up. I don't believe that either of us would willingly be found with any of these folks. Keep in mind however that there are also problems with a Pakistani group and others denouncing the Jews and Catholics. These bad folks show up when things like this happen. Hopefully we will survive this yet again. As to the comment on the Mac and other corporate items- I find that very ironic and all I can tell you is that I heard that person hollering about their Mac. I'm a PC guy so don't know if tablets from MAC cost that much. You do not have to believe me but Soros is there. Have you taken a close look at this man. He is reallllllllly evil. I agree with you on putting a Flat or Fair tax. I belive that would be a better way. The tax system we have now has been used and abused and that is our fault. How does one get 71K pages in a tax code. As to social security I would sugget looking at the Galvenston Plan from Texas.I would suggest that we phase it out as well as Medicare and Medicaid. I find myself looking back and saying I can remember when I could get a pair of chinos for $4. or a pair of Keds sneakers for the same price. A good pair of kakhis. Bill's for example, can cost $100 a pair. Gas was 27 cents for Hi-Test. now $3.55. What has changed our products to cause the gigantic jump. Somehow I cannot bring myself to blame all of this on Wall Street.

Mark
You are right on the money. But I must say I am not exactly sure of what Wall Street did. I know that the derivatives were bad but I have never seen someone cite them as illegal or pass a law making it illegal. I know the fools who touted that real estate never went down was a fool I do agree that we cannot allow the powers that be do like it when we fight. What we must do is start by taking over our local and state government with committess or organizations like the Tea Party. Or smalll groups meeting in our homes. We need to get candidates from are community to replace people at the local level who have been there for 30 years. I contend if we start making changes at the local level we will scare the heck out of the boys and girls in DC. It is indeed OUR nation.

The spin on the rich getting taxed on their income, is that this 1percenter would leave the market altogether, ergo, market would collapse!..What a drivel...After taxes, these behemoths would have more money left to play with and I don't believe for 1 second that they would disappear into thin air...I don't fear for the market crashing any more than I fear for the remaining 99% becoming absent in the scheme of things...Once this whole mess gets turned around (jobs for everyone after Obama's plan starts working, Wall Street brought to tight oversight), investments would come roaring in and we will all be one big family once again.

What do the Obama supporters and members of the OWS think of Obama having raised more money from Wall Street donors, than the GOP field COMBINED. Just curious. http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2011/10/obama_has_more_cash_from_wall.html

Daryl that is simply false. Candidates do not have to accept any money from corporations at all. Ron Paul raises all his money with online money bombs (consistently receiving more money from active military than any other candidate).

Nancy, I guess depending on what source (liberal or conservative media) you use you will get a different number, but regardless of that Obama takes a large majority of his camping donations from the very same big corporations and banks that the Occupy movement is against. Seems very hypocritical for the Obama Supporters/OWS members to support both.

Daryl
What ever gave you the idea that candidates must go to Wall Street for the money. They do that simply because it is there. However. I think what we really need to do is concentrate on revamping the entire primary and national election season. Here we are. over a year before the next general election and the whole system is up and running. Obama is on the trail in his bus pretending to be talking to the folks on serious issues so he can charge us for the trip yet we all know he is campaigning. We have a zillion debates scheduled and the Republicans are looking like fools specifically the two front runners. The polls are with us daily. Can we not put a system in place that there will be no primary campaign season until January 15 the year of the election. The primary season will finish on the last day of April.of said year We need to hold either a national primary or a primary divided into four quadrants of the country in April. The national season will begin on or about September 15 of said year and end on October 30. Election to be held as is current. All voters to present a picture ID and voter registration card. Congressmen and Senators may only accept money from their districts and state. Put a limit on amount raised for President and Congress. Just a suggestion feel free to comment.

If the claims were true that Wall Street supports Obama more, and as claimed here Obama is responsible for the Occupy movement, then the only conclusion that can be drawn is that Obama's integrity is beyond reproach. He is supporting the middle class while being supported by the 1%. I guess Wall Street wants an honest politician rather than unprincipled charlatans who need to be controlled by ever increasing bribes. Thanks Chris and Rosemary for pointing that out.

Limeport resident
You migt want to look at the history of George Soros. He is a man who likes to bring down nations and has the money to do it.

Rosemary
Most people are unaware of the facts pertaining to voter fraud. How much voter fraud will we have if we alllow voting by absentee ballot. How much do we have now? How many people in homes like Gracdale have been assisted with their absentee ballot vote. How many dead people have voted and still do to this day across the nation. We go to the polls, the folks in charge recognize us and we think all is well. I was involved a number of years ago with folks who had moved attempted to return to Bushkill Township to vote. We stopped that attempt. It can and does happen in both parties and all over the nation. Yes to voter ID and the voteer registration card. I take mine to all elections

Daryl
I didn't say it was going to be easy:). But you are correct there will be a problem to getting things past though we might be surprised. I think that if we limit those in Congress to getting money only at home,we will help our cause. I also would like to see Senators appointed by the State/Commonwealth as was the case with our formation. I realize the pitfalls of the past still exist but we have to make these elected officials beholding to their state and district and then it is up to us to monitor them We are the folks in charge of our Republic. Our Founders made that abundantly clear. Instead of watcing the big screen at home write, call or visit your representatives at all offices. Get out to your local governmental meetings. Yeah, I know, it is a real pain in the behind but do you really want your kids or grandkids to have to do this again in the near future. We cannot fall asleep yet again.

Many times the Koch brothers have been mentioned, with their ties to the tea party as an answer to complaints about George Soros ties to the OWS crowd. Here is an interesting article on George Soros and his love for Social Engineering and a One World Order.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/14700
A Quote from the Article:
Soros also told “The Australian” that the world financial crisis was”stimulating” and “in a way, the culmination of my life’s work.”

Stimulating. Have you found the job losses, house foreclosures, and incredible national debt—stimulating? Me neither.

As I initially stated it isn't going to be easy. To make the change with senators will require a Constitutional amendment that incldes revoking Amendment 16. Yes, when we originally appointed them there was corruption with "Senator Steel and Senator Coal" here in PA. We went from that to our Senators claiming they represented us only to have them going to the stars in California for money and ignoring us because they were now Senators of all the states. Thus their vote went to the folks with money across the nation while ignoring us here in PA. Bringing them home will allow us to keep them in their place as employees for PA. They become what you note in your last sentence only if we do not keep an eye on them just as we would any employee. At the same time I would suggest term limits. As to staying in touch with them, I would suggest that we do that to all of our representatives at all levels. I'm talking about attending meetings and taking your neighbors. Don't think that is important? How familiar are you with UN Agenda 21. I am also talking about running for office. Oh, I know, we all work hard, the job, the kids, the wife, the rest of the family, the yard, garden, and lots more to do. We have taken our eye off the ball because we are busy, we do not want to run, we dislike Washington, Harrisburg, Nazareth, Northampthon County. So make the decision to stay home and let others govern us and when their is a problem we blame the politicians as we sit on our hands?

At the recent Republican debate in Vegas, we heard hootin' and tootin' from the audience upon hearing the Pizza Man vilify the unemployed...Very sad display of bad behavior, not realizing that many of the jobless are tea partyers themselves...This is expected from people who subscribe to the bigoted homophobic intolerance...A gay soldier who is in the midst of war trying to protect Wall Street and America was nastily booed by similar crowd during an earlier debate.

Wilfredo
And I just know you have a cite we can go too in order to verify what you have stated. Nice of you to name call Mr. Cain. Of course you would never do that if you had to face him.Don't know if you are aware of this or not but people are able to sign up and stay unemployed for 99 months just 5 months short of 2 years. History shows that the if the folks can stay out longer not looking for a job they will. Contrary to what you might believe that is not a good thing.

Nancy
Is there something wrong with throwing out ideas? Are you looking for all of us to do group think? How do we make progress if we do that? I don't think I am insulting when I am citing historical fact. Putin, the Communist party and the American Nazi party are just a few of the folks who supported the OWS. I would assume that you would be opposed to these folks and organizations. They have been a scary bunch down through history. I know that some are surprised to find them here in the USA. but they have been with us for a long time and they are connected to OWS. Our kids who are not being taught history don't know how bad these guys are. I would have presumed you would have seen those within the group who admitted their association with them. I am sorry that you were unable to follow my points unfortunately that happens when one is spread out and limited in characters. As to your voting for the character in the White House, well I wouldn't dream that you would vote for anyone else. Who will I support? Since he was the only candidate to call on Ronald Reagan's 11 commandment and he has more brain power then the entire list of candidates and he is a native Pennsylvanian. I will be voting for Mr. Gingrich. Hope I surprised you.

Nancy,
Easily Goggled...
http://www.cpusa.org/solidarity-with-occupy-wall-street
http://anp14.com/news/archives.php?report_date=2011-10-16

But it really doesn't matter.
Instead of this monumental grudge match maybe an honest look at their demands & statements would serve better:
Stop corporate bailouts, subsidies, and unfair regulations - sure we can all agree on that.
Bailout and subsidize all my favorite causes instead... -Lame-

All we need is some consistency in place of favortism.

The Occupyers are out there pleading for jobs, fair treatment from the government and Wall Street...Obama offered a Jobs plan, money for cops, firefighters, teachers and others for starters but the Republican senators turned it down...Where are the jobs?..Oh, well.

Rosemary B...Who are the bigots?..The last time I heard was the Republicans would repeal Don't ask, don't tell staute that was just passed in Congress once they control the government...Not to mention other gay rights like same-sex marriage...We heard the audience booing at the gay soldier one sad night...This attitude is bigoted, I think...I hope you are not one of them, Ms B.

A system that takes from the working class, and the current administration wants to take from the working class, and gives that money away without the receivers of that money trying to better themselves, and then pursues the small businesses and their employees to continue this effort while vilifying them is UNSUSTAINABLE. Is that so hard to see? If the owner of our company is not able to make a profit, which he has to risk his entire savings and home to sustain, why would he continue to keep the 85 employees he currently has hired? At some point he will cash out and retire! What is wrong with you guys. It is not about class, greed, wall street, it is about the very principles this country was founded on. Our nation was the very best. Why? My grandfather immigrated from Italy. He wanted to speak English. He wanted to be an Americian. He worked his entire life, payed his taxes, owned a home, and, oh yea, raised a family that also worked, paid taxes, and continued to make a better life for themselves. No handouts, no help but from themselves and each other. This current path is unsustainable and is the end of a great nation. I just hope we wake up and stop fighting for and about the wrong things. Our current President wishes to divide us. That is dangerous. He is breaking us from within. I intend to fight for the country my grandfather fought for......please wake up.....

Rosemary
Nancy supports Obama because she is a Progressive Republican. We have realize that they are still with us. I do not believe they still have large numbers in the party. Acturally what we as conservatives should do is go back to our revolutionary roots as "classical liberals" The Founders and Framers would fall into this category.

Rosemary
Our foes have been among us for years. I would not be surprised to see an infiltration of communists here. What we have is a combination of the impact of the unions on public and private employees and the leftists from the 60's taking over the field of education in the public schools and colleges. We are no longer students. We are pampering kids by holding their hands through school. They need to be curious about things. When was the last time you spoke to a curious teen looking to knowledge and planning his future.

Rosemary B...Didn't you proclaim yourself a proud Conservative?..Be careful, if you don't toe the Conservativ/Republican line, you might be labeled by the drugster Rush Limbaugh as a RINO...Your party just despises the gays and lesbians, period...No gays in the Armed Forces, no same-sex marriages...True or false...Either you denounce this ideology or accept the fact that you are one card-carrying follower...There's the broad brush.

The one good thing about blogs like this is when the are dominated by a couple of people, they are fun to read because they reveal a lot about them. For example, Chris immediately postulates quilt by association so anyone reading Ayres, Obama, Krugman, Wright must be a subversive. Yet the only books he quotes with pleasure are Mein Kampf and Das Capital. What should we read into that other that he likes to read? He stopped teaching history in 1986. Should we infer the paranoia with cold war issues is that he never read any history after that? He talks about how easy it is to find a job applying as he did. In 1954 when he got out of college, there were many jobs for each candidate. I remember turning away 10's of recruiters because I did not have time to go out to hear their spiel at some fancy restaurant. At the same school today, graduates get 1 or 2 offers and are grateful. When there are 100's of candidates for each application, it is much harder to get a job let alone move up the ladder than in the 50's and 60's when any incompetent (not meaning you Chris) could get a good job. A Realtor license in the 1980's was an easy way to a comfortable life, today it is a easy way to the poor house. Things change -- today the country needs to starting thinking about what a middle class should look like. Chris has crystallized thinking patronizingly welcoming to our country people who do not need that, they deserve people to listen to their ideas Then America will be great again!

Nancy, where did I mention killing the FDA or EPA. How about the Federal Government utilizing its power to vary its standards from market to market. The mining industries run off water is held to a higher standard than your drinking water. So your local water utility is allowed to discharge for human consumption water that contains higher PPMs of monitored materials than the mining industries run off water? That is an example of the government utilizing its power to force its drill and dig somewhere else plan. Did I post Fear and Paranoia and Conspiracy? Conspiracy is done in secret, theses things are being done IN THE OPEN. You think we don't want clean air or drug regulations but what we want is the regulations to be concerned with safety, not agenda. That is not the case. My question is how do we pay for it all. So take all our money, take all wall streets money, take all small and medium sized business money, give it away...then what. You get to do that once. Please think about how to sustain the plan. Okay, how do you stimulate the businesses and create a growing economy? Lets hear it? At some point you have to listen to the businesses. They hire, they pay huge amounts of tax, and they stimulate the economy. If you don't want to listen to them then I suggest you come up with an idea, bring it to market, meet the regulations, sell it, hire employees, procure health insurance for those employees, and stimulate the economy....there is no other way.

Limeport Resident
You are correct on the matter of contributions to Obama from Wall Street.

Brunell offers a set of equations that I totally agree with. However, when one looks at the variables one needs better definition:
Opportunity <= Father's wealth
The best predictor of how rich you will be is the wealth of your father. The top ten percent and Ivy League degree are highly correlated (except Moravian). Bottom 50-90% not so much. Bottom 50% very few. Going to Ivy League or top technical school like MIT, CalTech, Berkley, John Hopkins or top schools like Duke, Lehigh tremendously increase your chance of being successful. Opportunity -- increases the richer your Dad is. The equation that is valid is Opportunity == Higher wages. Self betterment == higher wages-- I agree People need to do the best they can. But this is truly vague-- does a person who learns to be greedy and manipulate others and is ruthless deserve to get ahead of others who work as hard but are more altruistic? Doctors without borders save many more lives than those whose goal is to maximize income by seeing as many patients and prescribing as many tests as possible. Which has done a better job at self betterment? Higher wages-- today the best path is to invent Google or Microsoft; I say they deserve it-- I can blog crap all day because of them. Financial guys who foreclose when they do not own deeds, make money on collecting insurance on stock that they sell to gullible investors, I don't think deserve higher wages. Relying on bosses bad! Betterment to hope for charity? Pay me what I deserve.

Chris:

I agree that it is a good thing to read a variety of books. Mein Kampf teaches as much as the bible. However, one needs perspective obtained by other readings. The bible teaches morality; Mein Kampf shows how perverted humans can become. Rev. Wright of course did not write a book but did have sermons that one can read or view. Maybe, a lesson on perversion of religion?
Apprenticeships are great -- look at Germany. Their exports are greater than USA because people avail themselves of skill building. But I would like for American to aspire to greatness and have resources to do so!
I disagree with you entirely about today's youth. My kids, the x-generation, fit that self absorbed model more, but they ended up just fine making more than I ever hoped for and helping people. This generation seems to be realizing that they are being taken advantage of. More power to them. They don't want a handout but want a fair chance. I am convinced they will win if we rebuild a middle class.
I think indoctrinate is a bad choice of words for your kids. I am sure you meant that you wished to expose them to your experiences in life so they can become better Americans. Someone with such strong feelings will be a strong factor in their lives. Whether they agree with you or not does not matter, you will have exposed them to ideas that can only make them better people. Looking forward to my grandkids and your grandkids and greatgrandkids making this country better for all.

Limeport Resident, you missed the point. First, most of the people who own small to intermediate business that I have been exposed are not from wealthy families. The owner of our company grew up in Salisbury. Hardly a wealthy area. He put himself thru engineering school by working as a plumber in the summer and breaks. Your theory and numbers are not what I have been exposed in my industry. Once again, I ask you, how do we stimulate growth, jobs and opportunity by increasing taxes, regulations, and bigger government? How do we sustain the current administrations spending habits? That is the simple question. Those of you who support bigger government have already told the rest of us how you feel about wall street, big business, greed, and capitalism however, what is your plan to stimulate growth for the economy? Please, help me see your viewpoint.

GLOBAL SPRING...How did we get here?..I believe that when the Wall Street operators were sat free (deregulations), capitalism went berserk, global financial crisis happened, citizens got frustrated, Global Occupations...This is another legacy of the Bush administration...Many bad things happened during his watch and Barack Obama was left holding the bag..."HE MUST FAIL AT ALL COST...THE PUBLIC BE DAMNED!"...Talk about End of the World (for the disenfranchised anyway).

The Occupy people have been asked to get rid of their encampments for health and safety (and probably budgetary!) reasons in several cities now and are refusing to leave! Are they are inviting violence so that they can play the victim, once again? They have made their points and wasted millions in taxpayer dollars. It is now time for them to go home and put pressure on their reps in Washington for the change they want!

Rosemary B...How would you characterize your party's obstructionists' strategy just to cripple our president so he can't do a darn thing and make him look bad...If that attitude does not look like Public be damned, I don't know what is...The poor guy is trying his utmost best to bring the country back from the abyss, brought on by the disastrous Bush economic policies but, unfortunately, Obama has to get through Mitch McConnell and Company who'd like nothing more than to get rid of the Democrats from governing...Sabato says it's two-way street...Fine...Checks and balances are democratic systems to prevent overreach by one party...There is a job plan out there to hire people but it is beyond my comprehension the negativism of the entire Republican Senate (with a couple of Blue Dog Democrats) other than make him fail...It's PUBLIC BE DAMNED then...That's the way I see it, Ms B.

Rosemary B...The quote is mine and mine alone and quit putting spin on it...Admit that the Republicans are just bent on defeating Obama "AT ALL COST"...The programs you enumerated that passed were those before McConnell came to the podium and recited his pledge about making Obama a one-term president...Since then, everything the president put on the table were laid by the wayside, so to speak...They appeared too good for the country, and hence, success for Obama...How on earth creating employment for cops, teachers, first responders be rejected when the Republicans had been clamoring for JOBS all along...Infrastructure needs fixing...Why vote it down?..And please refrain from telling us that the president controlled both houses, when I have never seen so many Senate filibusters from your party just to block many proposals by the president for the good of the country, hence "THE PUBLIC BE DAMNED" (quotes are mine)...Checks and balances work if done without malice...Who is the adult looking for the American people now?

If all of you had taken the time and effort it took to argue back and forth about this subject and used it for something positive, the world would have been a better place. You have beaten a dead horse to death and back and still you will not get off the subject. I am now convinced that all you care about is your 15 minutes of fame for being the most long winded bunch of sorry assed individuals on the planet. Please stop, you are boring us with your political agendas.

John and S.
I would suggest that you could have contributed at any time along the way. I would like to konw why politics would not be an issue.here. We have a government who through Bloomberg's girlfriend received stimulus money that went to the owner of the park. He in turn storpped the closing of the park and allowed the mess to continue. The money given was from you, me and countless other Americans But that's not a political issue. Let us know wat you would like to discuss. How about "Are the protesters breaking thhe law and isn't it the duty and responsibility of the NYC Police to remove them from the park."

Wilfredo
It is nice to see that you are such a stand up guy who gets on board immediately.

Rosemary
You are correct that we have a child in the White House and let's keep in mind that he had a good laugh at our expense when he told us that the stimulus did not work all that well because the shovel ready jobs just were not all that shovel ready. I would sugget to every single American that before the 2012 election gets a copy of the books that he has written, particulary Dreams of My Father, It is a very hard book to read because it is insipid drivel. But it will tell you all about this man.

Limeport Resident
Your comments on the OWS and their protest and how countries like China use it to support their reign of terror is correct. Keep in mind that our rights are not absolute never have been and never will be. We are great at espousing those rights but we constantly forget that there are responsibilities and duties that go with those rights. You have a right to be secure in your home but if you are holding your family hostage there the police have the duty and responsibility to get you out of your home to save your family and any other hostages. The protestors have no right to erect tent cities, perform sex on tarps and in public and destroy a park whether public or private. We have other responsibilites affecting others such as educating your children, that is your responsibility not the states. If you want to educate you kids at home you can do that. You can also send them to public or private schools. The public schools of course see your kids as dollars.

Chris:
Great to see that old folks still can have an interest in sex! Performing sex on tarps? Wow! Remember that China has cause when the government attacks its citizens on the same pretext as China attacks theirs. Even the NYPD Internal Affairs agreed that the thug police officer was out of line. Arguments in absurdum have a place, but then based on your police example, do they have a right to invade your home because you are having sex on a tarp?
One can fight for rights. The police can arrest you for whatever they feel, with just cause, is a violation of law. The arrested have a right to a speedy trial (also being violated) where they can have a jury decide on the validity of the police action.
You say parents have a right to educate their children. If they teach them sharia law (as Republicans portray it not as it is), you must be fine with that. If they teach them civil disobedience, you must be fine with that. Both public and private schools see kids as dollars. It is the parents duty to make sure that regardless what they see them as, they educate them so that are productive citizens. I pay taxes for schools not so my kids will be educated but that we have a good supply of citizens that can strengthen the country.-- I like my $5500 computer; I like the fact the sufficient kids will grow up to stand up for the middle class. Maybe they can invent even better tarps!
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Gandhi

Limeport
So you will be fine when they stop at your home to tear up your yard and do what they want to do on said yard. That is a fantastic Progressive outlook on the world. Obvioulsy you are fine with just having the right to do something but don't believe you should be a responsible citizen. You really do not understand the difference between public and private responsibilities, eg. you can get drunk in your home but public drunkeness is a no no. If your private responsibilities end up in the yard and disturbes the neighbors you just might find yourself being arrested. So have your sex on a tarp in your home but don't roll out onto your front lawn the neighbors just might object. The point you missed is that we tend to ignore our personal responsibilities. You might want to check William Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England as well as the Writings of Thomas Jefferson on this issue. As to the education of our children, we should be about educating intelligent people. They are a specific group and here I would suggest Alfred Jay Nock's The Theory of Education in the United States. We have gotten off track with our educational objectives because we have strayed from our original intent. Today we educate children so they can get a job. There are kids out there who went to school and college only to come out and find that the job no longer exists. Now what do we do.

Obama is the adult in the room? His own people had to get him off his duff to do anyting other then golf or vacation. As to Senator Reid, I believe he voted against either the entire new jobs bill or one of the segments of that bill. I need to double check that. As to the matter of abotion or what is now known a the major from of birth control in America, I would like an answer to a question that plagues me. We have managed to eliminate some 50 million Americans who could be out there working,inventing, finding cures etc. For some reason we do not want our own yet we are okay withh allowing illegal immigrants into the naition. It is the major item I fault Reagan for when he gave amnesty to them. If you read the paper over the weekend there is now a question about the natutral born citizenship of Jaindl and Rubio. Apparently neither are natural born citizens. That will disqualify both men from running for the presidency. For some reason the so called birthers are now more radical because they pointed out these matters that are supposedly true. Point out something that is unconstitutional and you are a radical . Does this make sense to you>

Playing golf, taking a vacation seems like a lot more productive ventures than dealing with anti-middle class Republicans. Reid votes against a bill because of procedural requirements when a motion will be defeated. On a majority vote, every bill of Obama's would have passed. If the outcome isn't clear then the Democrats would have all voted for it. Congress is great theater.

Limeport
You do know that we are a Republic not a democracy. Were we the latter we would need the entire population in order to do business. Under a Republic we elect our leaders and tell them what powers they have. By our own rules a decision by the people on abortion has never occurred. We never voted on that issue at the federal or state level. We have many presidnets who have used their position to circumvent the laws using executive orders that have allowed our troops to be sent to Libya and Uganda. One might ask had we voted on abortion what might have been the outcome and the same can be said for our troops. When it comes to the troops and war both parties have done away with Declarations of War by Congress. Where did I state that people should not have children? Why would one opt for an abortion rather then practice birth control . Does NOW and Plan Parenthood give a medal for having an abortion. . Might not those within the 50M slain have come up with ideas that would have been major industires. A person crossing the border illegally is a criminal. Have you thought about the possibility that these illegal aliend might be stopping an agticultural machine revolution, much like the cotton picker or the Deere steel plow. With regard to Rubio and Jindal, I like both men but if they are not natural born citizens, they may not be president. We told Schhwartznager that and we need to do the same with the above. We all know the potential repercussions.

@Limeport resident, I don't keep coming back. I have not read any the posts in weeks. What is frustrating is trying to get some work done and having to delete this ongoing rant from my inbox multiple times per day. 543 posts since 10/2/2011, 6 are mine begining 10/13/2011 - 10/24/2011, 3 of which are imploring you to stop! I doubt that a thinking person would consider this "putting in the same thoughts, every few comments". Sorry assed was not a typo, and I still believe you are trying to get yourselves in the Patch book of records. Your (all of you that participate) name calling, rude comments and political opinions are soooo boring. Now, please, go away!

Limeport Resident
I do not believe in imposing a number of children.as China does. I do believe that a child that has been conceived should be allowed to come into this world. You need to take a closer look at Planned Parenthood, an organization put together by Margaret Sanger. She formed Planned Parenthood to eliminate black Americans. In affect she was a eugenicist something that came to the fore in the early decades of the 20th century. As a result of her and others efforts this nation ended up with laws on the book that allowed for the sterilization of "febble-minded people" of all people nor matter the color but blacks werer the prime target. Planned Parenthood likes to pass themselves off as the saviour of women when in reality they are the largest provider of abortions in the nation--both girls and boys. There is a biography out on Sanger and there is an excellent book War Against the Weak that you might want to read. We had the 'febble-minded laws" in 29 states and the law lasted until 1965 when California finally got rid of theirs. I believe that for every child born there is a reason

My Gordon Settersh were much more discrete than this No respect for the public who is goig to get to pay for this mess

So I took the time to skim the posts over the last 24 hours. Lots of right and left debate, however, not a lot on how to stimulate and sustain/pay for the plan. Just how much everyone is oppressed and how the big guys take advantage of the little guys, pretty much what the entire occupy wall street movement seems to be about. If the government becomes huge, as it has already, doesn't that make all of us the little guy? I have another simple question, why do they refer to people entering into the US as illegal aliens? I have an idea, how about this.....follow the laws already on the books! Become a "legal" alien or be naturalized, pay taxes, and become a positive for the country. Please post something to help me see the other side. It just doesn't make sense. The math has to work. Economy is based on Business not Government, right? So listen to the real Middle America, the guy who has 20 to 100 employees. Those are the guys supporting this thing, right?

But who will pay the taxes? This just is not sustainable, to say to increase the taxes means everything we purchase will increase. Why not stimulate business to make more, hire more, be creative? Your taxes will come by definition. More revenue is more tax correct?

I agree, tax reform. When someone doesn't pay in or receives a check for more than they paid in, how do they have some "skin in the game"?Surely the USA is worth something?It is not as black and white as we both would like to think but an increase to someone who makes 200K or more is not the answer.Increasing taxes on business that are already strained will only increase unemployment and generate less taxes.How do we sustain your plan?I think we need to decrease spending, how about that for an idea!When your household has less income, what do you do?You cut back.You learn to live with less.What is wrong with some of the people who blogged above with getting a job for less?"I can collect more on unemployment" You know how many times I personally hear this when offering people jobs...in this economy!Lets extend unemployment benefits, right? WRONG What would you do with more tax revenue?Give it to the unionized municipal workers and teachers?Re-invest in their pension funds?I guarantee that some of your tax dollars have gone to re-invest in your local municipalities pension funds. Who is re-investing in my pension fund? At some point you must face the fact that someone has to make something or provide a service for profit to fund this thing we call government.To kill that kills the entire house of cards.The government can not be expected to put a roof over my head, pay my education, guarantee me a big cushy job, and keep me warm at night because this is not sustainable.

Just in case anyone would like to get back on topic, the merit (or not) of the Occupy movement - ie, the issue they bring up and not all this politics... I have created a very short presentation on this for YouTube. You can view it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsn3uzydr8k

Finally, a relatively calm interchanges...And Wayne, your presentation is genius...Good show, and thanks for the info.

@Rosemary B, I too am reading "The Help" to try to understand why anyone would find it entertainment worthy. I have actually heard of women holding "help" parties, and assuming the roles of the characters in the book. I will never understand the actions of the upper class, and the idea that the "help" were not people. Your comment about Sharia Law taking hold in the US is ludicrous. Libyian Americans came here to escape that kind of thinking. I hardly think anyone other than some radical men would welcome it. Libyian woman are as educated as the rest of us and would not stand for such treatment.

Brunell-- I do not vilify businesses. They are key to our economy. What I reacted to is your statement that minimum wage jobs are somehow good. Companies are then subsidized by us (food stamps, tax credits) so that people can eek out a living if they get another job. No upward mobility for them but wonderful profit for the owners. Those are sweatshop conditions. They may provide a service or product but they are not what this society needs. To then ask these people to take a pay cut but not ask the owners to pay an extra 1 or 2% in tax on net profits greater than $250000 (about 1.5% of small businesses) suggests a skewed value system that OWS protesters are highlighting.
Chances are that these low paid people and future generations will not better themselves. That has been true for generations. The chances to do better for the poor is a lot less than the chance that your owners sons we not be able to maintain their standing. I would bet that these people that you vilify work as hard as the owners kids if not harder. Companies will survive if there is demand for their product. There will be demand for their product if there is a strong middle class. How will companies survive if there is no middle class?

Nancy
A TOTOAL TAX OVERHALL. On its face it looks good. . All we need now is the "fair share" we are all going to pay. It is interesting that those on the Progressive side use the same language but I have not seen a solid number. So Nancy what number/percentage are you going to place on yourself? Are you going to check and see what the rates are now and who is paying what? Are you and the folks at OWS going to picket tax cheat Warren Buffet who has taken the administrtion to court because he is paying to much despite the fact that he owes the government a billion in tax dollars. Oh, I forgot his secretary will pay the bill. .

Limeport resident
So you got part of the story. How about Jefferson's attempt to end slavery within the framework of the Declaration of Independence? Jefferson and Washington freed their slaves as did others A number of year later the nation was torn asunder by the Civil War. The president was Lincoln and possibly the greatest president we ever had and the good guys won the war. Is it a horrible part of our history? Yes it is but as far as I know it was England and America who worked to right this wrong. Despite the Civil War in our own nation, there is still slavery in Africa today and in other place around the world.I don't see you leading a brigade to stop that. Nor is the UN involved in stopping it. As to the matter of abortion, Planned Parenthood is the biggest provider of abotions in the US. They will do it at their own facility or outsource it to guys like to a doctor for a fee. . Attempt at humor was poor. But I will waget that you really happy that your mom didn't expose the fetal you to an abortionist willing to kill you for a coouple hundred bucks

Rosemary
Correct on your sitation of Charitable giving and Taxes. Don't expect a whole from the uninformed

Chris-- Planned Parenthood does not perform abortions. Do they provide a list of doctors who will perform abortions. Yep. Do NRA provide a list of gun suppliers who ultimately provide guns to killers? Yep. My mom made the decision to have me but it was her decision made with my father when they could see that I will have a good life.
But women should not have the choice according to you and Sharia law which is also according to you.

An Interested Bystander -- I do own a company but do not pay minimum wage because business model is different from yours. I have also consulted with venture capital companies. More than half of the companies started fail. They fail for a variety of reasons, the most prevalent reason is a bad business model. Bill Koch (the good brother) once told me he can spot failures within ten minutes. It is determining the return on investment of surviving companies that is challenging. The next reason for companies is when they growth successfully and the ownership cannot adapt to a new model of a mature business. Founding companies is much different than running them. The last is dumb luck -- I am amazed at the number of companies that a small "if only.." would have changed their destiny. Could I start a small retail business? No problem, but I know I would be struggling and trying to keep good people. That is because I have no idea of a proper business model for that area. Just as I don't know why you are struggling. But I wish you well. For the sake of the country we do not need too many struggling companies.

I'm sorry it is the Planned Parenthood doctors who do that. If you are referring to the Fast and Furious program that would be the Obama adminnistration and Holder as well as the BATF&E boys. NRA would probably have dealers from whom they would purchase guns for events like the Friends of the NRA dinner. So no married woman has had an abortion. I told you that I want to see a national election on this matter. The only reason abortion is in existence today is because of the fact that the Progressives took it through Courts. Had it gone before the people it would have failed. You and i both know that. As to Sharia law, you just keep getting cozy with it. There is a ton of information, all bad, on this matter. Of course you are aware of the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood will be taking over in Libya and Sharia law will be the law of the land just as they are doing in Egypt. So your saying that your creation was not an oops. Happy for you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/peter-worthington/sharia-law_b_1030508.html?just_reloaded=1

"Britain allows Sharia law in specific cases, but not without controversy. Backed by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Sharia law was introduced in 1996 in five centres for Muslim family disputes, (London, Manchester, Birmingham, Bradford and Nuneaton). Since then, something like 80 Sharia tribunals have spread across the country, dealing in secrecy, in mosques, behind closed doors, with no independent witnesses. The practice is rife with allegations of intimidation and discrimination."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019547/Anjem-Choudary-Islamic-extremists-set-Sharia-law-zones-UK-cities.html

I apologize for being off topic, but I thought I would share this about what is happening with Sharia Law in England. It is truly causing a big problem there and getting worse in many European countries where the religion of Islam is growing thru immigration, and high birth rates ect. Do your own research and decide for yourself if this is something to worry about here. I think it is definitely something to be aware of. Especially if you are a woman or have daughters.

Hey Chris Miller, I've had enough of your ignorant chatter for the last three weeks. You put the question of abortion to a public vote and an overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens would approve the right to an abortion, My father was a hard core-conservative, lifetime NRA member, didn't like JFK, thought commies had infiltrated, etc, etc, But he believed a woman had the right to have an abortion because he knew that no one knew if a human soul existed in the womb and that it was not for government to get involved in a private issue. I also get a kick out of the fact that more men than woman seem to oppose abortion. Where is that coming from ??
I don't think a man has a say in the matter. You ought to just shut up and stop exposing your ignorance on so many subjects. But I respect your right to speak your mind. I think I might go up to NYC OWS and defecate on a car. Have you talked to any regular people lately about OWS ? Most that I talk to, small business types, contractors, average working people, they support OWS. Wake up Chris and get out into the real world. Alot of people don't like Obama but they also don't like Wall Street, bailed-out banks and the great wealth imbalance. Buy the way, I do own stock. I think its great. I have my own little business. I gladly pay taxes because I know they are necessary. I like real capitalism and free markets and representative democracy. Too bad we don't have them.

A bunch of the protesters are recent grads who are up to their ears in hock because the jobs are not there...This is no fault of their own, as the Herminator claims them to be...The previous Bush administration got us into this financial mess due to its bad policies as tax cuts for the richs, deregulations of Wall Street, unfunded wars...These young folks hit a blank wall...OCCUPY EVERYWHERE indeed!

Rosemary
Here is the real question, why is education this costly and it is at all levels of education.Big question. Are we creating intellectual students? Great book on the matter is the The History of Education in the United States by Alfred Jay Nock. Published in 1931. It is the path we are on today.Why are the students at the park when they might want to look at the reason for the cost of college. I would also sugget that there is a great need in this nation for skilled workmen. Kids you might want to consider that.instead of a "liberal arts" education that will get you a degree in some sort of "studies" course

So what is the problem with the plan, Nancy. One of the major things that it will do is bring in those who do not,as the President notes, "have skin in the game" It will also bring back personal responsibility when it comes to making decisions like new red corvette or health insurance for the family. Given that we are looking to have 90% of GDP wrapped up in paying the debt by I believe 2020, we should be taking a look at what the real economists have to say not the communists, in favor of keeping the poor folks poor, at the National Memo. Which brans of "ists" are they? Of course we could get serious and come up something that will both save the Republic and bring us together by looking at solid programs.

Nancy
You are familiar with Babylon and the Tower. You do know that a new Babylon is being built in order that we have a central financil system to carry out the globalization. And you can tell me how we will achieve a "universal common good". It will not happen and it won't be because there are conservatives on earth. I would also suggest that you take a look who are the most charitable folks, the Progressives or the mean, nasty Conservatives. Google or Bing it or maybe someone here can assist you.

i can't believe you retards are still at it. All of you.

What would Jesus do?..He drove the moneychangers from the steps of the temple once...He would whip the greedy moneychangers in Wall Street one more time, then go tend to the poor Occupiers...Halleluia!

Rosemary B...(I am sorry I had to go the long route of replying to your recent comment about student loans).

This program has been with us for quite sometime, and appeared to work just fine, with loans gettting paid in earnest because jobs were available then...These young ambitious kids never anticipated they'd be hitting a blank wall after graduation..TADA!..Bush and company plunged the country into the abyss...Jobs are not there, loans are not getting paid...So much for the American Dream.

Wilfredo
Have you seen or heard how your buddy Obama is going to really hose your pals at OWS? Have you seen the chart indicating the tremendous rise in student debt. If the parents and kids are going to be really smart they will avoid college and find a school or person who will assit them in acquiring a trade. Being a plumber, electrician, mechanic is going to be a great job. On your above note I would suggest that Rosemary kicked your illiterate comments to the side a long time ago.

You still wonder who got us into this mess, Rosemary B?..Obama is trying to get us out of it...The Occupiers are making sure the rest of Washington is listening.

We shall see who is listening November 2012.......

An interesting graphic showing the differences (and common ground) between the Tea Party and OWS. Clicking on the picture will make it larger and more readable.
http://lvtp912.blogspot.com/2011/10/tea-party-vs-ows.html

"A TIME poll shows more voters support the protesters than the Tea Party"...10/14/2011 issue.
More: Opinion on Tea Party movement-33% Unfavorable vs 27% Favorable
Occupy protests - 54% Favorable vs 23% Unfavorable
73% of people favor raising taxes on the rich (income of $1M or more)

Evening News - 9% favorability of Congress!..DISGUSTING.

Rosemary
If you take the time to read Buchana's new book, Suicide of a Superpower" you will add to your store of information. It is scary but worth the read

Attorney Generals of New York and Delaware are set to investigate Wall Street criminal workings after taking cues from the Occupiers.

Rosemary
I cannot believe that Blomburg is letting this happen. I'll wager that the store owners are not pleased about this with Thanksgiving and Christmas on the way. As to the persecuting of people they are already doing that thanks to organizations like CAIR

The Occupiers are called useless idiots and the 1% acolytes are called pathetic lemmings...This name calling won't lead us nowhere...Let's all come together and look for solutions to this awful mess...The tea party favorite front runner Herman Cain admonished the 99% protesters to behave and get a job...Coming from someone who does not know much geography is all hot air.

http://mrctv.org/videos/businesswoman-closes-shop-after-threats-occupy-san-diego-moochers
Have to wonder how many more stories like this are playing out across the nation...

Pat Buchanan predicts the end of Occupyiers soon...What else is new with this controversial man?..He must do his fair share and be useful instead.