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Take Our Poll: How Far is Too Far for Willow Lane Students to Walk?

Is 1.5 miles too far for elementary school students to walk?

 

Several parents approached East Penn School directors at the June 25 meeting to express concern over the possibility of the elimination of busing of students who live within 1.5 miles of Willow Lane Elementary School.

The elimination, made a reality in a 6-3 vote, will save the district $60,000.

The parents who feared for their children's safety mentioned the blind curves along Willow Lane, others the absence sidewalks in some places.

Todd Solomon, a father of three Willow Lane students, identified the absence of crossing guards.

Jonathan Berger echoed Solomon, adding details such as the logistical nightmare that would occur as hundreds of parents deliver their children every morning.

He also mentioned predators, snow, freezing temperatures and the vehicle emissions that will cloud the air.

When parents were through, board members discussed the issue.

Director Julian Stolz vowed continued -- though eventually futile -- support for maintaining the busing of all students.

Superintendent Thomas Seidenberger reminded taxpayers that Willow Lane was planned as a school to which students were intended to walk.

Director Alan Earnshaw agreed.

"The busing issue is not new. We talked about this all through the planning process. We put off eliminating the buses because it was a nice thing to do," Earnshaw said, adding the economic climate no longer can accommodate the service.

Director Lynn Donches suggested introducing the the action in "baby steps," by eliminating buses two days a week.

Her suggestion was discounted.

Patch readers expressed several ideas after the story appeared Tuesday. Among them was one that suggested the district could shorten the distance beyond which students -- aged 5 to 10 -- would walk to a half or three-quarters of a mile instead of 1.5 miles.

What do you think?

  • What is an acceptable distance for Willow Lane Elementary School students to walk to school?

    (Voting has been closed for this question)
    • A quarter of a mile
        24 (8%)
    • Half a mile
        36 (12%)
    • Three quarters of a mile
        26 (9%)
    • One mile
        45 (15%)
    • 1.5 miles
        142 (50%)
    • Other, please tell us in the comments
        9 (3%)
    Total votes: 282
  • Your vote will only count once. This is not a scientific poll. View Results Vote!
Related Topics: East Penn School District and Willow Lane Elementary School

Michelle Huber

6:52 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

vehicle emissions? -that will help melt the snow. I walked to school and home- uphill both ways.

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truth seeker

7:34 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Is true that Julian Stolz when making a motion to restore transportation to Willow Lane also demanded paying for webcasting of meetings and spending the fund ballance all the way down to implement one of the Donches budgets? Restoring transportation might have been 1 thing, tying it to other imprudent adventures would be quite another.

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Mariella Savidge

7:40 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Stolz did tie $10,000 for two years of webcasting to his support of busing, yes. And he made an example of the Catasauqua School District which he reported has but $50,000 in its fund balance.

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Vic

7:57 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

I have to say the schools always worry about preditors well that would make the safety for the chidren on Willow Lane in jeoperdy unless the school is going to hire crossing guards and other responsible adults to patrol Willow Lane or mayby even more costly pay state or the Local Police depts. to be on Patrol on Willow Lane.The schools always say protect your children well where is the safety and protection with their choice of no bussing for Willow Lane?If the School District does stop bussing on that road than the State needs to make the School District fully responsible for the childrens safety when going to and from school.

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Mariella Savidge

8:03 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

You've touched on several of the hot-button issues, Vic. The children's safety is the most important issue to everyone -- parents, school district and township, and we just don't know yet what the safety plan is.

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Sheriffchris

3:01 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

I guess the Parents will have to parent and take there children back and forth to school until they are old enough to do it on their own without all your stated fears

Really?

7:57 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Julian does not have the kids in mind. He knows how much this upsets some of you and he is playing with your emotions. Please visit any board meeting and you will see how little he cares about our kids and how much he does care about his political career!! I actually went out and drove a typical walk to school yesterday aand I am not sure what neighborhood is 1.5 miles away from Willow???? I live 1.5 miles from Willow and I am a Shoemaker school.

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taxed-enough

10:47 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

To answer your question, please drive from Sunningham Lane (zip code 18062) to Willow Lane which is 1.4 miles. Or, better yet, walk it.

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tamarya

7:10 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

I got a plan, go to the mobile home on mountain and shoeneck park your car and get out and walk from there to the school, see if you can do it. I know if we lived there and they eventually took busing completely away from willow lane if my car did not run wherher it broke down or for any reason my husband had it, my kids would be getting marked absent. Walked from that location down to orchard and mountain for the bus stop and almost got hit by another first student bus. When the bus almost hit us the stop was changed the end of the school day.

Robert Sentner

8:42 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

This is all a plan by our School board to get us all up in arms about this ( and we should be ) BUT it doesn't do jack $*&@ about the real problem in east penn school district. So they pass the budget with another tax increase and use of Surplus, so in reality it wasn't a 1.6% increase when your using millions from the reserve. Everyone wake up, in a couple of years you are not going to believe what happens to your taxes. And don't hold your breath on HB 1776. That wold be a huge mistake econmy wise for us. It would be great for homeowners, but after a couple of years after all the business's flee your house prices will plummet. Lets fix the spending issue. And stop with the its a mandate crap. Start your big teacher unions lobbying just like they lobby for your big fat pensions.

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Lower Mac Resident

9:27 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Couldn't agree more Rob, this is a nuisance right now, but the big picture is all the decision the BOC are making RIGHT NOW with the development and THE HUGE INCREASE IN TAXES that is coming our way due to needing more road repairs from all the truck traffic, these people think it's easy now, this is nothing compared to the crap their going to throw at us in the coming years....you thought you were broke now.....just wait

Robert Smigielski

9:02 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

For us the distance is not an issue, crossing the road at the corner of Mill Creek and Sauerkraut is the issue. I jog and bike on the path around the school and the drivers to/from work are an issue - not paying attention and going to fast at times. Safety MUST BE addressed.

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Lower Mac Resident

9:29 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Crossing guards, that's all they need, crossing guards. I walked to and from school, I had crossing guards....is this a lame idea to have a crossing guard? I still don't get the issue.....it was publicized that willow would not have busing, so they helped out a little the first year or two and bused students, now they are finally doing what they should have done initially and everyone is up in arms....I just don't get it.

Chandler

9:34 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

They will never walk. The pansy parents will all drive their kids to school. A huge number of parents drive the kids to school already even though busing is provided.

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seriousthinking

12:26 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

I am so happy to say I will be one of those "pansy" parents taking their kids to school. Call us what you like if it makes you feel good.

Ron Beitler

9:54 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

None of the above - Shouldnt be a one size fits all. Every neighborhood should be evaluated for safe routes. If I have to say a 'within number'.. An adult can walk 1.5 miles in 20 minutes. I'd say 1.25 miles would be a cap for a kid with parent or a 'walking bus'. But again, every neighborhood is different. This is assuming a straight line path to the school. It shouldnt be X amount away from school but X length of the walking route.

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Joe

10:54 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

you could have your police force patrol...Oh yeah I forgot.

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Robert Smigielski

11:09 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Joe - ridiculous - how much are you willing to pay a POLICE officer to stand around and direct TRAFFIC? A crossing guard for a few hours a day is the economical choice and ANY reasonable person understands that. The function of a police officer is NOT to be a crossing guard. Please do not take over the conversation with your agenda.

taxed-enough

10:55 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

I am looking at the poll on the Patch, and so far 58% of people who responded picked a reasonable walking distance that was LESS than 1.5 mile. Basically, something like one mile (or much less) is winning by a landslide. Trust me, if these children had collective bargaining rights, they would not have to walk 1.5 miles to school. The school board is most responsive to the needs of the unions and they respond to collective bargaining. If the students had a union and collective bargaining rights, they would not be walking 1.5 miles to school. Sad to say, but completely true.

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Sheriffchris

3:06 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Hey... they are your kids...if you really fear for their safety and legs either accompany them to school or drive them yourself...take responsibility for your children . Why should taxpayers provide taxie service !!!!

Diane Krier

11:16 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

children yrs ago walked to n from school they survived as long as there is crossing guards I see no problem...parents can drop off n pick up also if that need be...Allot live close enough that every area for any school in EP should have them walking....

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seriousthinking

12:29 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

I agree Diane but the issue is 300 plus children being dismissed at the same time to their parents. It will become very chaotic. I dont think driving them or picking them up is an isse here. They better have a good plan in place by Aug. 27th to accomodate all these drop offs and pick ups.

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Tommy

12:32 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

@Seriousthinking, 300 plus children being dismissed at once is nothing. Look at Emmaus high school as a reference. My catholic high school in Philly had 3000+

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seriousthinking

1:09 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

@ Tommy...up until now anyone picking children up had to show ID and sign them out...and we can not compare high schoolers to elementary students.

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LMTnative

8:53 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012

EPSD already dismisses elementary students who all walk every day at Lincoln and Jefferson. Why should the entitled at Willow be any different?

Karen

11:30 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

with all due respect; who will "volunteer" for the crossing guard job??? LOL

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tamarya

8:06 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

I think one of a few that think it is brilliant busing is being cut should be the first in line to volunteer. But then why would they, they sure give their opinion while they are driving their cars around. God how will they wait for the school traffic going in and out of the school, and I wonder how many of them walk to their jobs everyday.

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Mariella Savidge

11:59 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Diane, You make a very good point, but are there any new dangers that didn't really factor in years ago? Some have mentioned predators...do you think this is a concern?

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Knitted in the Womb

3:44 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012

There are actually FEWER child abductions now than there were in the 70's...we just hear more about them now via the media.

Tommy

12:26 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Listen, I'm from Philly. I walked to school for 12 years. The streets are much more busy there, and I can count on 1 hand the number of accidents that have happened with students in the 15 years since I've graduated. The overprotective coddling and oversensitivity with kids today has to stop. Like Governor Rendell says, a nation of wusses.

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tamarya

8:07 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Thats good you walked to school, but do you walk to work everyday now?

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tamarya

8:08 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

And you can count on one hand, I cannot count on any hands of accidents that happened at bus stops.

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Knitted in the Womb

3:46 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012

Tamarya...I know of a student who was killed at a bus stop at the school I grew up at. A substitute bus driver accidentally drove past her stop...realizing the mistake, turned around to go get the girl. The girl ran to cross the street to get on the bus--before the bus had stopped.

Robert Sentner

12:52 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Tommy this area is NOTHING like Philly, and maybe we wouldn't be in the position we are in if it wasn't for Slick Rendell sucking all of our tax money to support his lovely Philadelphia. I for one am proud to live here, and it must be an ok place if you moved here from Phila.

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Robert Sentner

12:59 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Everyone is missing the point, we are talking,or I should say that the school board has us talking about 60,000 dollars. Nothing has been said about needing another 1 million dollars plus for the increase in salaries and pensions for the upcoming school year. Priorities and not the childrens safety by the look of the budget. Rediculous to offer this and not have a plan other than no bussing. really need a change in the school board. when the budget is consumed by wages and salaries we need to look there first. This is not a knock on teachers its a we need to look at the total operation of the school district. how about an outside janitor service that isn't in the union ???? whatever happaned to that discussion. Its not about the 60 grand...much much bigger problem

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careless fills

11:06 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Unfortunately, the school board has tied its own hands with the one-year pay freezes it negotiated for last year. Pay increases for the next three years are guaranteed. Layoffs are prohibitted for any reason, including economics and even declining enrollment for the duration of the extended contract.

taxed-enough

2:10 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Robert, you are completely correct. We have a school budget of $125,000,000.00 and the idea of saving money by making an elementary student walk is just a tiny drop in the bucket ($60k). Outsourcing the custodians would save so much more money, but Dr. Seidenberger has made it clear that he is completely against saving money by outsourcing and reducing the amount we pay to clean the floors. Again, the janitors are union workers, so he won't touch that area! He has stated that these are good paying jobs, and (paraphrasing) he is against saving money by having the floors cleaned in a cheaper way like outsourcing which would eliminate these good paying janitor jobs. It comes down to looking out for the unions before the kids ( and kids don't have collective bargaining rights). So, the unions and custodians are more powerful that the parents realize, and so the school board will choose and be cheerful about amking kids walk 1.5 miles to school, but the 83 janitors that we have on staff, each of them are immuned from any cuts or even a reduction in workforce according to their newly renewed contract with the Teamster's Union and the school board.

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Sheriffchris

2:58 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

The thing the interests me most here is the age of the children. Children in the 5 to ten year old bracket must be monitored or walked by hand to school. That is called parenting. I do think that cuts to the school budget, of which 65% or so is salaries and retirement benefits would better serve the community being cut than having students this young walk to school. 65% of the budget is just too much for these categories.

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LMTnative

8:57 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012

Chris, you hit the nail on the head. This will require parents to parent their children. They believe that's the job of the schools.

Robert Sentner

3:00 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

such a shame that MOST of the school board picks the jobs over the kids safety. I didn't realize that we were paying taxes to the school district to keep people gainfully employed. Remember its all about the children....what a load of crap. I can't wait to see what they are going to cut next to protect there union jobs. I know air conditioning, nope never mind I am sure that is in the union contract to provide a cool working atmosphere.

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taxed-enough

3:09 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Robert, I agree. The school district was not created for the purpose of providing high paying jobs.

jncdd23

3:17 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

So this is going a bit far back and some of you on here may not even remember this. When I attended Shoemaker School we had crossing guards. It was a bunch of walkers that signed up to be crossing guards. We were organized by a teacher and given our assignments. The roads that were not as heavily traveled the kids could be by themselves, the busier streets we had an adult with us. We had cool bright orange strap thingy’s with a Badge and a flag on the end of a pole that of course said STOP. We would have one foot on the sidewalk and one in the street and the flag was extended into the roadway. There would be a student on either side of the street. If the intersection has four stop signs we would have four kids and each one did a double duty. The fifth grade students would be the crossing guards. I remember when we were finally able to be crossing guards this was really "Cool" for us. It not only teaches the kids to be responsible but the kids also feel good about themselves.

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Robert Sentner

3:32 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

yeah we had that at Jefferson too, the problem is I am sure it isn't in the contract for the teachers to do that.
To have : Carl, Diescher, Radar, Christoff, Windt, Russo, Gibb, Koltisko, Miller teaching our kids now. They arrived at school with sport coat, Tie, Dresses. Now those were some teachers that should have made the big $$$$$'s Not that there isn't good teachers now but those teachers went above and beyond. Very fond memory's now....LOL wait we can take the 60,000 we saved and hire one new teacher to do that job. NO that wouldn't work because it would cost much more than 60 grand with salary and benefits.

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Emmaus Mom

5:30 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Mr. Sentner - If you would take a few minutes and drive past Jefferson either before or after school you would see teachers (and some of them are even wearing dresses) posted outside of the building for student arrival and dismissal. You would also see crossing guards posted at the busier intersections surrounding both Lincoln and Jefferson. Students are no longer allowed to act as crossing guards for safety issues. The one missing piece of the puzzle is the Emmaus police who very rarely get out of their cars to assist with student safety. And, yes, I went to Jefferson, Lincoln and EJHS during your "golden years" of teachers, and yes, they were wonderful. They are the same retired teachers who are now having a wonderful retirement thanks to the teachers' union that you constantly demonize.

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LMTnative

9:02 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012

If walkers and crossing guards work at Lincoln and Jefferson why can't they work at Willow? Why are these students so different?

Robert Sentner

7:05 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Emmaus Mom, I dropped off and picked my son off at jefferson for 4 years and never once did I see a "school teacher" off of school property. and as far as Emmaus police very rarely getting out of there cars to help, thats just not true. Maybe if the Emmaus Police who put there life on the line everyday made as much as the janitors at the EPSD they could do more. As far as me demonizing union's they are going to bankrupt this country.

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Emmaus Mom

7:46 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Why would a teacher be off of school property? That doesn't even make sense. They have to be on school property at their assigned times...Isn't that how any job works? And you obviously didn't fully understand what I was trying to say about the police. They could easily man a corner or two in the morning in order to help the students cross the street. All I'm saying is get your facts straight before you scrutinize other people. And I'm pretty sure that if you were ever given the opportunity to get a job as a custodian in a school district you would be thankful and not turn it down. My bad for getting involved in this thread...some people are just always looking for something to gripe about!!

Robert Sentner

8:10 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

My facts are correct.
Damn right I wouldn't turn it down..... who in this economy would turn down a union janitor job $$$$$ cha ching. I am not faulting the janiotors for having the job, I am faulting the school board or superintendant or whoevers job it is to think out of the box to make sure there is enough money to PROPERLY educate and keep our children safe while not constantly raising taxes. how much is the pension contribution going up in 2014 ???? just wait to people see that number.
And as far as teachers being off the property in my day thats exactly what would happen, Mr Radar, Diescher, Carl and a couple of other teachers walked the area. god forbid there asked to do something thats not in there contract. All I am saying is it was a totally different breed of teacher back then.

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truth seeker

10:12 pm on Wednesday, June 27, 2012

Just so everybody knows, whenever a teacher comes in before school, or stays after to help a child, that is outside of the contract. Believe me when I tell you that happens all the time. I also personally know teachers that have used their own money to pay for supplies to enhance lessons. Rob you disrespect all of them with the post you made tonight. Also, janitors and teachers make middle class salaries and you apparently do not like that. You also apparently dislike them and their unions and that is fine although your constantly blaming them for the pension bomb is absurd. Idiotic GOP lawmkers started that bomb ticking in 2001 and the parisitic bankers and investement fools that made the ecomomy crash are just as much to blame. Before all of that, the state pension funds were self sustaining off investments alone. $$$$$$ cha ching huh? Sounds more like the natural gas industry which could do everything you mentioned and more with the same severence tax used in West Virginia. $$$$$$ cha ching also describes the Shell oil tax deal they just landed. But you stay after these teachers and unions.

Michael D Siegel

12:14 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012

Ok Lets settle this argument. We agree to have crossing guards at the intersections needed. These crossing guards shall be paid the same salary as the janitors, be certified and shall be unionized. This is for the safety of the children. Now how many of the parents would agree to this and if the EPSD Board really cared for the safety of the walking children, they would agree as well? Come on parents speak up and put your money where your mouth is. I bet I hear silence. The fact that the safety of children are a concerned as being crossing guards is pure BS. I grew up being one of this guards and sure encouraged me to be responsible. Maybe its time that some of the parents volunteer their time as a crossing guard rather than sucking down their starbucks coffee shooting the sh*&, with the other parents while standing at corner waiting for their kid to get off the bus or burning valuable petrol in their heated or air conditioned car. God I pray that it does not rain or your child may melt like the witch in the wizard of oz. The EPSD is not a taxi service or a baby sitting service and on my dime, I am glad the EPSD board is doing this. Wait until funding is cut completely for busing for the entire state. Its coming and not too soon.

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seriousthinking

9:07 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012

@Michael...that is really an ignorant statement. There are many parents that spend countless hours volunteering their time at Willow Lane. In fact with 30 students per class it is almost necessary for these parents to be there to help. It is so easy to assume that all we do is drink Starbucks and bs all day...seriously you are so good at assumptions.

LMTnative

9:09 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012

Well said Mike! Unfortunately the fluorescent vests would clash with their outfits and standing out on a street corner is beneath most of the folks in those neighborhoods. They care about the safely of their children when they can sit inside their homes and complain on blogs like this or call offices (schools district, township, bus company etc.) on the phone and demand action. However, when the rubber hits the road they're too lasy to get off their butts and do something proactive about the situation. Besides, they pay an lot of taxes and are entitled to these services that someone (anyone) else must provide for them.

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seriousthinking

9:11 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012

Again Einsteins...none of you have no clue how much time the parents already do and are happy to volunteer at the school!

taxed-enough

10:52 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012

Are you guys really seeing the big picture? BIG PICTURE....our school board is extremely friendly to organized labor and the labor unions. The Teamster Unions get rich by entering into these contracts like for the janitors. The school board chooses to save money and focus on cutting spending on transportation that affects students and parents, but protects the money that goes to the organized labor union members. Have you read the contract for the Teamsters? East Penn MUST have 83 custodians which are Teamster union members, and can not reduce the workforce even if there is a decline in student size. Even if a janitor retires, they can't even reduce to less than 83 janitors even by attrition. Could we get by with 82 or 81 custodians? Pretty likely. But, the school bus drivers are not Teamster union members, so that is where the cuts must occur. If the school bus drivers were Teamsters, we would not be having this conversation.

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Ron Beitler

11:09 am on Thursday, June 28, 2012

Taxed enough - No one sees the big picture. People only react when something affects them personally.

taxed-enough

12:18 pm on Thursday, June 28, 2012

Truth seeker, I see your point. I phrased that completely wrong. Thank you. However, from what I read from the Janitor contract, there is a guarantee for 83 janitorial jobs through the Teamster's union. We can not go under 83 janitors even in bad economic times, and even if we have fewer students, and even if one retires. So, the Teamster jobs for the janitors are guaranteed which are a direct contract between the school board and the Teamsters. And, if there are cost reductions it can not be done there. However, these bus driver jobs, well they involve First Student and obviously not protected in the same way. The school board is very interested in cutting down with costs when it involves transportation from what I have seen and heard at board meetings. However, if you bring up one of these 83 Teamster janitorial jobs, Dr. Seidenberger is not receptive at all to ideas like that.

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Michael D Siegel

2:48 pm on Thursday, June 28, 2012

Seriousthinking- if you are saying that there are many parents who volunteer their time, then get off your high horse and start a crossing guard volunteer group and a safety cadet program for the fifth and sixth graders. Its great that parents have the time to help the teachers but its time that parents share that same same sentiment and enthusiasm with reducing the overall expenses of all school district functions. I am sure their are retired police officers, housewives and former teachers who would not mind being teachers of individual responsibility, something many parents take for granted that teachers teach in a normal day to day classroom activities. While in the classroom, why not help the teachers teach about safety to the children for walking home from school, talking to strangers, buddy system, carrying whistles etc and of course PA Megans List of child predators who live near the school. ( you better look) By the way thanks for calling me an Einstein because science is my favorite subject.

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seriousthinking

5:27 pm on Thursday, June 28, 2012

Sorry Michael, Im too busy drinking my Starbucks and BSing to get off my high horse.

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Knitted in the Womb

3:32 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012

People are concerned about snow and rain??? REALLY??? I walked to school living in the Syracuse NY area...130 inches of snow a year, and more rainy than Seattle. Get a warm coat and an umbrella!

My kids go to Wescosville, and really, I would welcome walking to Wescosville if some sidewalks were put in along Brookside Rd. Of course half the traffic on Brookside Rd at the beginning of the school day is already parents who are dropping off their kids rather than letting them ride the bus, so I can only imagine what it would be like if there was *walking* added into the mix.

One school I went to as a child bussed children *to* school in the morning when there was more traffic on the streets with people driving to work, but then had kids walk home in the afternoon. This is one compromise that might be considered.

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